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 Old 04-16-2008, 04:52 PM   #1
 
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Default Mazdaspeed 3/6 UOA Results

As promised, here's my latest UOA:

Engine 2.3L Turbo, direct injection

Miles on engine 14630
Miles on oil 4632
Date sampled 04/08/08
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 34
Copper 29
Lead 1
Tin 0
Moly 91
Nickel 0
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 53
Silicon 11
Sodium 9
Calcium 2400
Magnesium 12
Phosphorus 635
Zinc 787
Barium 1

Sus Visc @ 210F 55.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 8.83 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 390 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.3 should be <0.6
TBN 3.0

As I noted over at BITOG, Mobil1 5W-30 is working pretty well- in my engine, anyway...
Here are my prior results:

Engine 2.3L Turbo, direct injection

Miles on engine 9838
Miles on oil 5046
Date sampled 12/31/07
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 40
Copper 83
Lead 2
Tin 0
Moly 80
Nickel 1
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 38
Silicon 12
Sodium 6
Calcium 2634
Magnesium 11
Phosphorus 624
Zinc 808
Barium 2

Sus Visc @ 210F 56.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 9.13 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 375 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN 2.9
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 Old 04-16-2008, 08:16 PM   #2
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Looks like wear is stabilizing. You could probably skip the next UOA, and do one at 10k miles, and the metals will probably be even less.

It's interesting how UOA's show how long true engine break-in takes. It's usually 10-20k miles before the wear metals finally start being very consistent between intervals.
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 Old 04-16-2008, 08:37 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Looks like wear is stabilizing. You could probably skip the next UOA, and do one at 10k miles, and the metals will probably be even less.

It's interesting how UOA's show how long true engine break-in takes. It's usually 10-20k miles before the wear metals finally start being very consistent between intervals.
I'll probably keep tracking the trends at 5K mile intervals. What can I say? I'm an OCD car geek... As for long break-in periods, that was certainly the case with my '95 318ti. I switched to Mobil 1 15W-50 at 4K miles, and the 1.8 liter inline four didn't fully break-in until 21K, when highway mileage suddenly jumped from 28-30 mpg to 31-32 mpg. It's now racked up almost 112K, so I think I'll have a couple of UOAs done just to see what's going on.
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 Old 04-16-2008, 09:50 PM   #4
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Ha, UOA's are definitely addictive. Especially dyson ones...you always feel like you're getting some sort of special scientist analysis on your car...makes you feel like it will last forever with the right care!
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 Old 04-16-2008, 11:15 PM   #5
 
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So, without bothering to search or do the research myself... how do you guys do this? I'm picturing someone doing a CSI-esque cotton swabbing during an oil change, carefully placing the swab in a tiny plastic ziploc bag, and mailing it off to some lab somewhere in northern Montana. And how much do you pay for the report or whatever?
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 Old 04-17-2008, 05:27 AM   #6
 
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It may not just be the break in period lasting a long time. It could also be the metal shavings not being drained completely within a few oil changes. Unless you drop the oil pan and clean it thoroughly, you could always have some shavings still in the oil pan waiting to be drained the next time around.
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 Old 04-17-2008, 01:51 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Zeya View Post
So, without bothering to search or do the research myself... how do you guys do this? I'm picturing someone doing a CSI-esque cotton swabbing during an oil change, carefully placing the swab in a tiny plastic ziploc bag, and mailing it off to some lab somewhere in northern Montana. And how much do you pay for the report or whatever?
I use Blackstone Labs. The basic cost is $22.50, but I pay $10 more and also get a TBN, which measures how much active additives are left in the oil. On my other cars I simply collect my sample from the oil as it is draining. The MS3 gets free oil changes at the dealer as long as I own it, so I bought a $30 sample pump from Blackstone that allows me to collect oil from the sump prior to the oil change.
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 Old 04-17-2008, 02:07 PM   #8
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Anyone got the UOA on RP? I guess ill order the Sump pump from blackstone.
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 Old 04-17-2008, 02:49 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by div2 View Post
The MS3 gets free oil changes at the dealer as long as I own it
Free oil changes? What kind of deal is that? Do you work for Mazda or something?
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 Old 04-17-2008, 06:19 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Zeya View Post
Free oil changes? What kind of deal is that? Do you work for Mazda or something?
Nope, my dealer(Kings Mazda in Cincinnati) provides that with every new Mazda purchase. I have to provide the synthetic oil, but I still like to let them do it since the job is such a pain compared to my other cars.
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Long Beach Mazda has the free oil changes thingy if you buy something else (overpriced) extra. I think it was thier security system or something of the sort. I imagine they are not the only dealership doing this. Say 30$ an oil change and you keep the car for 100K miles, it only saves you 1k. Thier cost is much lower, and that is only if you are religious about 3K mile oil changes.

They were very pushy and tried to sell me on a "limited availability" markup on the car and wouldn't budge, so I drove 10 more miles and got what I wanted. It is certainly a buyers market for cars in the LA area.
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 Old 04-17-2008, 06:30 PM   #12
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Good deal. My experience was quite pleasant with my Mazda dealer in Hunt Bch. I usually buy Fords and they were pretty pushy. I would just get up and walk out.. Ford dealerships are a dime a dozen.
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 Old 04-17-2008, 06:32 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Haltech View Post
Anyone got the UOA on RP? I guess ill order the Sump pump from blackstone.
I searched over at BITOG and couldn't find any RP UOAs for the MS3, MS6, or CX-7, sorry.

The pump is pretty trick; it's designed so that the oil is pumped directly into the sample bottle and the pump itself never touches the oil. The .25" plastic icemaker tubing the pump uses is so cheap-seven cents per foot-that it's not worth cleaning and re-using the tubing.
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 Old 04-17-2008, 06:35 PM   #14
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I ordered a sample kit and a pump today. So im going to send them in my oil.
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 Old 04-18-2008, 01:34 AM   #15
 
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Here's my analysis from a few weeks ago. Taken at 11,000 miles, 4,000 on the oil. I used 5w30 Pennzoil Platinum, and it seems to be doing a great job. I'm gonna extend the interval out a bit to 5,000 this time and then do another analysis to see if the oil can hold up that long.
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 Old 04-18-2008, 08:23 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by PeterSellers View Post
Here's my analysis from a few weeks ago. Taken at 11,000 miles, 4,000 on the oil. I used 5w30 Pennzoil Platinum, and it seems to be doing a great job. I'm gonna extend the interval out a bit to 5,000 this time and then do another analysis to see if the oil can hold up that long.
Thanks for sharing. I plan to use 10W30 PP at my next change. It will be my first non-Mobil 1 oil change in about 20 years. I will provide a UOA from my current batch of 5W30 Mobil 1.
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 Old 04-18-2008, 09:04 AM   #17
 
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might be a dumb question but why use 10w30 when car takes 5w30? advantages?
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 Old 04-18-2008, 09:18 AM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by PeterSellers View Post
Here's my analysis from a few weeks ago. Taken at 11,000 miles, 4,000 on the oil. I used 5w30 Pennzoil Platinum, and it seems to be doing a great job. I'm gonna extend the interval out a bit to 5,000 this time and then do another analysis to see if the oil can hold up that long.
Those are excellent wear numbers, but I'm surprised that the PP 5W-30 sheared down more in 4,000 miles than the M1 5W-30(in my UOA) did in 4,632. We both had low amounts of fuel in our sample.
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 Old 04-18-2008, 09:40 AM   #19
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might be a dumb question but why use 10w30 when car takes 5w30? advantages?
A 10w-30 has less viscosity improvers in the chemical makeup, so it tends to be more sheer resistant (ie less chance that it will sheer down a grade over the course of an oil change interval). Oils with less point spreads tend to be more sheer resistance because of this. (One of the reasons why 5w-20 semi-syn's are actually decent oils).

The advantage of the 5w-30 is better startup/cold weather flow. If you were in the snow belt, I'd try 10w-30 after winter, and back to 5w-30 during the colder months. You could probably run 10w-30 year round though. Just do a UOA and see how its doing!

Everyone should do a UOA on their vehicle at least once, lets you check for leaks and such without a full teardown.
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 Old 04-18-2008, 03:38 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by div2 View Post
Those are excellent wear numbers, but I'm surprised that the PP 5W-30 sheared down more in 4,000 miles than the M1 5W-30(in my UOA) did in 4,632. We both had low amounts of fuel in our sample.
Yeah, that's an interesting observation. I'm not an oil expert by any means...do you think it would be safe to run my oil change interval longer (to 5k instead of 4k) with the risk of the viscosity being that low? Maybe I'll run some 10w30 next time...being in San Diego I don't really need to worry about starting in cold weather.
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 Old 04-19-2008, 08:13 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by bova80 View Post
might be a dumb question but why use 10w30 when car takes 5w30? advantages?
Good question, and Crossbow provided an excellent answer. My personal reasons for choosing 10W30 over 5W30 are:
1. Normal shear down
2. Grade reduction from fuel dilution
3. Stability
4. I live in a mild climate with a heated garage
5. I always warm up an engine easy

If I was seeing frequent dips below 20F, I would use 5W30. Mazda specs cars for use everywhere.
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 Old 04-19-2008, 12:04 PM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by PeterSellers View Post
Yeah, that's an interesting observation. I'm not an oil expert by any means...do you think it would be safe to run my oil change interval longer (to 5k instead of 4k) with the risk of the viscosity being that low? Maybe I'll run some 10w30 next time...being in San Diego I don't really need to worry about starting in cold weather.
I'm not an oil expert either; in fact, I was considering a switch to PP since so many folks were saying that it handled the fuel/oil dilution issues better than M1. As for running the oil out to 5K, you'll probably be OK, though I'd still like to know why the PP sheared down in your UOA.
As for going to a 10W-30, you shouldn't have any problems. However, I wonder if it will help much. As I understand it, a narrow viscosity spread is less important when selecting a synthetic engine oil.
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 Old 04-21-2008, 06:24 PM   #23
 
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I've seen better reports but my engine is pretty happy for now Iron has gone down but silicon up a little ( I might need to oil the filter). Fuel dilution hasn't changed and no antifreeze. Not too surprised on the viscosity.
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 Old 07-11-2008, 09:55 AM   #24
 
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Hey
I have been reading this thread and It looks like the best two options are clearly either the PP or the M1

My question is I too have heard the wax stories about Pennzoil. A kid at autozone told me they still use it. He seemed to know alot about cars... alot more then me anyhow and he said the mobil 1 was the better option.
Today while slacking at work I checked online to see if I could find anything about this. From pennzoil's sight I found a QA section Pennzoil Frequently Asked Questions. Question 4 addressed the wax issue and Pennzoil does say they use paraffins in their products, and seem to indicate that the PP does contain paraffins. I know from working in the painting industry that paraffin usually means paraffin wax, and well that makes me hesitant to put it in my car.

Thoughts? Anyone use PP and actually check for sludge?

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 Old 07-11-2008, 11:35 AM   #25
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Im reading a lot about shear down.

Just some thing to think about.

The old Mazda 3 manual specd. 5W 20 for turbo and non turbo.
Mazda then changed it to 5W 30 for the turbo and 5W 20 for non turbo.

Begin speculation:
Maybe, just maybe, this was because of sheardown.
The 5W 20 was shearing down to an oil below design spec 5W 10, so Mazda upped the turbo spec to 5W 30 so it would shear down to the correct design spec of 5W 20 during use?

Personally I wouldnt get all wrapped up in it, use the 5W 30 and let it sheardown to 5W 20....... maybe that is what it is supposed to do!??
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 Old 07-11-2008, 11:42 AM   #26
 
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I used M1 for a long time and always got watery green solids in my catch can. With PP it's black and oily like it should be. I'm guessing the detergents in M1 don't go well with the fuel leaking down the cylinder walls that DI is known for. PP is cheaper as well and stands up to fuel dilution better than M1. PP FTW.
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 Old 07-13-2008, 07:01 PM   #27
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No one using Valvoline? I just changed my stock oil ~2K miles, to valvoline synpower 10w30 and everything went smoothly, along with a new filter and o-rings. Everything seems to run just fine and fuel economy has improved.

Surprised no one is using Valvoline though, it's hella good oil, minus the fact that they don't advertise as much on T.V.
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anyone use Amsoil? I have the last two changes, next one I'll try and get an UOA. As far as I know they are 100% synthetic. Most other synthetics are blends and not pure.
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 Old 07-18-2008, 01:08 PM   #29
 
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Here is the latest UOA on my MS3 as well as the two prior tests. I think that the Mobil 1 5W-30 holds up pretty well- in my case, anyway. The weekend before this latest oil change I spent three days at Putnam Road Course, where @1.5 hours per day were spent lapping the 1.766 mile track. Engine speed remained between 3000-6000 rpm throughout each 30 minute session. Ambient temps ranged from 70F-90F. From the soot on the tailpipe and rear fascia-the MS3 looked like a diesel-I did not expect such good results.


Engine 2.3L Turbo, direct injection

Miles on engine 19955
Miles on oil 5182
Date sampled 7/10/08
Make Up Oil 0.5 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 3
Chromium 1
Iron 34
Copper 11
Lead 2
Tin 0
Moly 92
Nickel 0
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 1
Boron 50
Silicon 12
Sodium 14
Calcium 2683
Magnesium 17
Phosphorus 698
Zinc 863
Barium 0

Sus Visc @ 210F 55.8 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 9.01 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 390 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.3 should be <0.6
TBN 3.2

Prior Results:

Miles on engine 14630
Miles on oil 4632
Date sampled 04/08/08
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 34
Copper 29
Lead 1
Tin 0
Moly 91
Nickel 0
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 53
Silicon 11
Sodium 9
Calcium 2400
Magnesium 12
Phosphorus 635
Zinc 787
Barium 1

Sus Visc @ 210F 55.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 8.83 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 390 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.3 should be <0.6
TBN 3.0


Miles on engine 9838
Miles on oil 5046
Date sampled 12/31/07
Make Up Oil 0
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5w30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 40
Copper 83
Lead 2
Tin 0
Moly 80
Nickel 1
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 38
Silicon 12
Sodium 6
Calcium 2634
Magnesium 11
Phosphorus 624
Zinc 808
Barium 2

Sus Visc @ 210F 56.2 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 9.13 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 375 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN 2.9
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 Old 07-18-2008, 04:37 PM   #30
 
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I just collected a sample to send to Blackstone labs. However the place that i got the oil change done at failed to rem to collect the sample from the oil pan stream, so they got 4oz from the canister that holds the oil filter.

Does anyone see any drawbacks to this method? Will there be excessive sediment, aka metals? Im not sure of how the oil flows thru the cansiter and to the filter on this setup so any insights would be helpful.
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 Old 07-18-2008, 05:21 PM   #31
 
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From the Blackstone Labs FAQ:

What about the oil left in the filter? Can I use that instead?

Sure, just make a note on the slip that the oil came from the filter. If something really bizarre shows up, we'll take that into account. It shouldn't change much in the analysis, though.


The FAQ also notes that a minimum of 2.5 oz is needed to perform all the tests, so you should be fine. As I mentioned earlier, I use the sample pump that Blackstone sells. With the pump I don't have to worry with getting the oil change guy to collect the oil, and I can also obtain a UOA without having to perform an oil change.
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 Old 07-23-2008, 01:10 AM   #32
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on the subject of oil.. i am assuming your manual states only to use 5w-30?

our manual has a spread of grades over different temperature ranges..

ill re check the figures.. but its defiantly got 5-30 10-30 and even straight 30 grade as well as 5-40-10-40 and i think there may even be a 50 grade in there as well.. however i will check on that last one..

Hence the reason I am running a RP 10-40.. the thicker oil makes me feel a little bit better about giving it a good flogging.. and leaving it in their for longer than 5000km's.. ill prob leave it in for 10k (normal service down here)

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 Old 10-15-2008, 09:59 PM   #33
 
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Here is my latest UOA on the MS3. I'm still running Mobil 1 5W-30.
Looks pretty good, if I do say so myself. Here are Blackstone's comments:

"Everything looks good in the latest sample from your Mazda. Silicon finally reads close enough to average levels that we can consider it normal, and no other harmful contaminants were found. Iron is still a bit above average
but all wear has been steadily moving in the right direction. It took a little longer than usual for your engine to mature past break-in but better late than never. This oil still had some active additive left in it with a TBN of 3.4. 1.0 is low. It looks like you're going to keep your oil runs around 5,000 miles and we think that's working well for you."

Miles on engine 25109
Miles on oil 4989
Date sampled 10/06/08
Make Up Oil 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Mobil 1 5W-30

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 27
Copper 5
Lead 0
Tin 1
Moly 97
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Ti 0
Potassium 2
Boron 53
Silicon 7
Sodium 7
Calcium 2365
Magnesium 13
Phosphorus 627
Zinc 832
Barium 0

Sus Visc @ 210F 55.5 should be 55-62
cST Visc @ 100 C 8.92 should be 8.8-11.1
Flashpoint in F 385 should be >365
Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0
Antifreeze 0.0
Water % 0.0 should be <0.1
Insolubles % 0.4 should be <0.6
TBN 3.4
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 Old 10-16-2008, 10:00 AM   #34
 
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I've been using PP ever since my first oil change. I used the factory fill for the first 2.5k miles, then did another oil change at 5k miles and every 5k since. Initially I used 5w30, but at 20k miles I switched to 10w30 for it's better sheer resistance. Here's the UOA from my 30k mile oil change a couple months ago.



"It looks like the ~5,000 mile oil change intervals have been working out for you. Our universal averages show typical wear from the Mazda 2.3L after ~4,000 miles on the oil. This oil was run a bit longer than that and you can see how nicely your engine wears compared to most. We're all for extended oil use and we don't think 6,000 miles would be too many to run the oil in your Mazda. With wear looking this good you may be able to go longer. Only a slightly low viscosity kept this from being a perfect report and that doesn't seem to be a problem. Nice!"

Miles on engine - 29,930
Miles on oil - 4,862
Date sampled 07/02/08
Make Up Oil Added - 0.0 qt.
OEM Mazda Filter
Pennzoil Platinum 10W/30

Aluminum - 2
Iron - 10
Copper - 1
Molybdenum - 44
Boron - 22
Silicon - 3
Calcium - 2909
Magnesium - 11
Phosphorus - 632
Zinc - 702

Sus Visc @ 210F - 57.4 (should be 59-65)
cST Visc @ 100 C - 9.48 (should be 9.9-11.9)
Flashpoint in F - 395 (should be >365)
Fuel % - <0.5 (should be <2.0)
Antifreeze - 0.0
Water % - 0.0 (should be <0.1)
Insolubles % - 0.3 (should be <0.6)
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 Old 10-16-2008, 05:39 PM   #35
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thanks to everyone who posted UOA's.

hal did you ever get some RP tested?
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 Old 10-16-2008, 07:59 PM   #36
 
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Just sent my PP 5w-30 sample off yesterday. I'll be sure to post my results.
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 Old 10-18-2008, 09:35 PM   #37
 
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SLS, what are your commuting habits? Lots of highway, city or a mix?
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 Old 10-19-2008, 04:19 AM   #38
 
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Here's my oil sample analysis, from Blackstone labs. I had 7,355 miles with Amsoil Signature Series oil and a Wix oil filter, was still on break-in.

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 Old 10-19-2008, 07:42 AM   #39
 
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That's odd... no one using Royal Purple? I use 10w30 RP in my turboed Mustang and I'm going to start using it in my MS3 when I change the oil again. I got a killer deal on it at $4.00/qt and stocked up on it.
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 Old 10-19-2008, 01:11 PM   #40
 
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Wow Boosted, 7355 miles between changes. You're brave.

Seems like 5-6k is the sweet spot.

I've got a sample kit on the way to me and will be sending them off some of my Rotella T syn 5w-40 soon.
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