Should I really get an AP?

[Dash08]

Hey everyone.

I'm really contemplating buying the Cobb AP, but I'm not sure if it's right for me.

First, i'm a total noob when it comes to ECU tuning. I want something that will monitor my engine dynamics like a DH and something I can flash the ECU with to get a better tune for my mods. I know the AP is good for the flashing and is only getting better. I have read about the release of the ATR for the MS3. This scares me because i don't think a noob like myself will be able to reap the benefits of the ATR.

All of this and I don't really plan on going mod crazy. Minor bolt on's.

So, is the Cobb AP really a viable option? Will it be worth the money for someone with very limited tuning knowledge??

$700 is alot of money to drop for 20 more HP and a DashHawk.

[bova]

if you dont know if its right for you how are we going to know? its truly up to you and what your intentions are. yes you can benefit from this but its up to you. if you don't know how to tune i wouldn't recommend trying it yourself.

[Dash08]

Originally Posted by bova80 if you dont know if its right for you how are we going to know? its truly up to you and what your intentions are. yes you can benefit from this but its up to you. if you don't know how to tune i wouldn't recommend trying it yourself.

I guess I figured if I gave out certain information, the experienced guys could suggest wether or not it's right for me. Perhaps I was seeking too much. On the other hand, I don't think everyone who bought an AP has had in depth experience with ECU tuning, yet is still having success with the AP.

I guess I'm just looking for a safe and powerful tune to optimize my cars performance and reliability while also being able to monitor engine characteristics. Is this something an intelligent beginner will be able to accomplish using an AP with out having to go to school for tuning??

[bova]

Originally Posted by Dash08 I guess I figured if I gave out certain information, the experienced guys could suggest wether or not it's right for me. Perhaps I was seeking too much. On the other hand, I don't think everyone who bought an AP has had in depth experience with ECU tuning, yet is still having success with the AP. I guess I'm just looking for a safe and powerful tune to optimize my cars performance and reliability while also being able to monitor engine characteristics. Is this something an intelligent beginner will be able to accomplish using an AP with out having to go to school for tuning??

the only way the AP is safe for a beginner is if you run an OTS map or take it somewhere to get tuned. just because we all bought APs doesn't mean we will all be tuning them ourselves when the software is out. I'm sure a lot of us will try moderately tuning them but if you want a good tune its best left to the professionals.

[Dash08]

Originally Posted by bova80 the only way the AP is safe for a beginner is if you run an OTS map or take it somewhere to get tuned. just because we all bought APs doesn't mean we will all be tuning them ourselves when the software is out. I'm sure a lot of us will try moderately tuning them but if you want a good tune its best left to the professionals.

Yeah, your right. If I was to get my car fully tuned I would definitely take it to a pro.
So, are the OTS maps worth it?? will my car perform better and more reliably?

I don't know. Maybe i'm asking the wrong questions or they just can't be answered. Perhaps I thought it would be a no brainer like, "Well, do you want the extra power or don't you??"

Why did you buy an AP??

Thanks for your input.

[bova]

Originally Posted by Dash08 Yeah, your right. If I was to get my car fully tuned I would definitely take it to a pro. So, are the OTS maps worth it?? will my car perform better and more reliably? I don't know. Maybe i'm asking the wrong questions or they just can't be answered. Perhaps I thought it would be a no brainer like, "Well, do you want the extra power or don't you??" Why did you buy an AP?? Thanks for your input.

i bought one because the ots maps proved to be decent for the speed6 and now i work closely with cobb in getting ots maps made. that said i'll also be learning how to tune and have picked up books on it and will probably get some advice from christian along the way.

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by bova80 the only way the AP is safe for a beginner is if you run an OTS map

not necessarily true. i couldn't get any of the maps on the AP to give me a proper commanded a/f OR consequent actual a/f. i was constantly running lean and the car was of course really fast, so w/o the monitoring i had in place, who knows if i would have ever known since pulling the plugs to check condition frequently is a major PITA.

i also could not get christian to give me the time of day regarding my fuel pressure, yet was working closely with a bunch of n00bs so i sold promptly sold the AP. my car has been running just fine w/o it and, truthfully, until there is some sort of interface available for jeff evans at evans tuning to tune it, i will not be an AP owner again. i can't rely on an overloaded and sometimes lost staff at cobb to tune anything for me if they can't spend 5 minutes to give me some complete answers, esp after i just spent 700 dollars on their shit.

i don't think i've driven my ms3 in almost a month at this point...my 22 year old montero is more fun.

[SuperVillain]

Originally Posted by builthatch not necessarily true. i couldn't get any of the maps on the AP to give me a proper commanded a/f OR consequent actual a/f. i was constantly running lean and the car was of course really fast, so w/o the monitoring i had in place, who knows if i would have ever known since pulling the plugs to check condition frequently is a major PITA. i also could not get christian to give me the time of day regarding my fuel pressure, yet was working closely with a bunch of n00bs so i sold promptly sold the AP. my car has been running just fine w/o it and, truthfully, until there is some sort of interface available for jeff evans at evans tuning to tune it, i will not be an AP owner again. i can't rely on an overloaded and sometimes lost staff at cobb to tune anything for me if they can't spend 5 minutes to give me some complete answers, esp after i just spent 700 dollars on their shit. i don't think i've driven my ms3 in almost a month at this point...my 22 year old montero is more fun.

What happened to "I love my MS3 and its my True love????" Sounds like your gonna jump ship soon.

[Dash08]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername if you have an intake and a tbe sure its a good idea, anything less probally not needed as a first step

I have a Cobb SRI and a catless midpipe. I also want it for monitoring.

Originally Posted by xandrake I couldn't agree more. Even with my BPV and SRI, the AP made a noticeable gain on the butt dyno.

I know it will add decent power. I'm just not sure if I will be able to use the ATR thing to really dial in my car. Maybe I won't need it if they keep making better maps.

[DaleNixon]

Originally Posted by Dash08 I guess I'm just looking for a safe and powerful tune to optimize my cars performance and reliability while also being able to monitor engine characteristics. Is this something an intelligent beginner will be able to accomplish using an AP with out having to go to school for tuning??

Does the AP really optimize reliability?

[Scottybones]

Originally Posted by Dash08 I guess I figured if I gave out certain information, the experienced guys could suggest wether or not it's right for me. Perhaps I was seeking too much. On the other hand, I don't think everyone who bought an AP has had in depth experience with ECU tuning, yet is still having success with the AP. I guess I'm just looking for a safe and powerful tune to optimize my cars performance and reliability while also being able to monitor engine characteristics. Is this something an intelligent beginner will be able to accomplish using an AP with out having to go to school for tuning??

The maps are made for you already, so there really isn't any tuning involved. Even stock, people are getting some decent gains out of it, and better gas mileage to boot. The question you need to ask is, why do I want to do this?

[Unoriginalusername]

if you have an intake and a tbe sure its a good idea, anything less probally not needed as a first step

[xandrake]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername if you have an intake and a tbe sure its a good idea, anything less probally not needed as a first step

I couldn't agree more.

Even with my BPV and SRI, the AP made a noticeable gain on the butt dyno.

[phillyb]

i would say no...but what the hell do i know?

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by phillyb i would say no...but what the hell do i know?

not a damn thing, which is quite evident.

[Haltech]

It boils down to your goals. If you plan on going beyond bolt on's, its a good choice to invest in one.

if you plan to raise boost on this car, its a good investment with the OTS maps showing power.

if you want complete tunability for free, its a fuckin no brainer.

[DaleNixon]

What qualifies as "beyond bolt-ons"? I think I'm rapidly approaching that point. I think I'm done with power mods.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon What qualifies as "beyond bolt-ons"? I think I'm rapidly approaching that point. I think I'm done with power mods.

Big turbo, different maf, different map, manifold, ewg combo, etc.

[Darksun280]

i know i'm getting one.

[xandrake]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 i know i'm getting one.

sigh

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by xandrake sigh

Well hell i got Two ecus so why not

[ThrillaSpeed3]

if ur really confused if u should get it, or not. then u should try it out first.
get to meet someone that isnt to far from u that has a AP, and get it connected to ur car. If u like it, then u know u want it.

[phillyb]

i want to see the outcome of that...

[DAC17]

For anyone who's looking for an AP, I just sold my car and have an "as new" AP for $525 shipped. Let me know. Has all of the latest 1.03 maps on it.

Dave
dac17@aol.com

[SuperVillain]

Its 700 but when you think about it. I had an SI and to reflash the ECU it costs 500 and you had to send your ECU to hondata. The AP allows you to 1. Reflash your ECU. 2. keep reflashing your ECU with More mods for More Powaaaa. 3. you can view live data like KR, and boost etc. it is only one at a time tho. 4. You can self tune when ATR comes out but thats for select few. and finally 5. you will eventually get NO Lift Shift for this car.

So in reality, its like buying an infinite number of reflashes which would be 500+ for each one but you only paid 700.

I got it ha ha

[FastAttack]

Well from experience, its always good to wait. I been on the bandwagon of always having the first apps first with my SRT , and even had the pleasure of working with the latest and greatest with a supra.
What I found out is that you have to wait at least 1-2 years for the application to mature. If you buy early you will be buying into the headaches.
As i've seen with the Cobb AP and the other possible flashes , people swear by the application , but as I have seen a lot of the maps not only from Cobb , are just in there infancy with problems or with no added benefits to the stock map.

If I was you i would buy known and reliable boltons before you venture into the unknown. Maybe in the next 6 months we will have some better breakthroughs.

[Ian]

It's worth it, even if you are only at an intake you notice gains. Plus... if your check engine light comes on you can figure out whats wrong and all that stuff. haha I am glad i got the AP from Cobb.

[mazdaturbo3]

i have turbo back exhaust cai and fmic and getting fuel cut pretty bad. will the ap help it? or a upgraded fuel pump? thank you

[Dash08]

Originally Posted by mazdaturbo3 i have turbo back exhaust cai and fmic and getting fuel cut pretty bad. will the ap help it? or a upgraded fuel pump? thank you

You need internals for the stocker or a new upgraded pump. Problem solved.

[Dash08]

Thank you to everyone for your input. I have decided against the AP for now. I'm thinking Downpipe and coilovers, but that will take some saving.

Thanks again fellas.

[lidokrantz]

Originally Posted by mazdaturbo3 i have turbo back exhaust cai and fmic and getting fuel cut pretty bad. will the ap help it? or a upgraded fuel pump? thank you

2 breathers and all is good, add a 3rd=fuel cut...not worth it unless you get the CP-E fuel/boost cut flash...this is the reason i have only 2 breathers on my car since 2/07...

lastly, i totally agree with Unoriginal....get the CAI/SRI and TBE first and run the stock tune....and then get the AP if you are not happy...i have been running stock tune with no fuel cuts and the car runs perfect....

[UltimateWhiteGuy]

Downpipe instead. Good call.

[FCmaniac]

I just bought one with the idea of using the OTS for now and getting a protune down the road. I had a protune on my WRX and it was just night and day better over stock or OTS maps... power delivery, peak power, power under the curve, drivability etc. And yes the reliability factor is huge... to get a custom tune for your car with your parts in your conditions is definitely a smart move as far as reliablity/safety for your engine.

[Crash8308]

Originally Posted by FCmaniac I just bought one with the idea of using the OTS for now and getting a protune down the road. I had a protune on my WRX and it was just night and day better over stock or OTS maps... power delivery, peak power, power under the curve, drivability etc. And yes the reliability factor is huge... to get a custom tune for your car with your parts in your conditions is definitely a smart move as far as reliablity/safety for your engine.

I am also wanting to know about reliability. is my engine going to suffer durability for using AP to re-flash?

also, does it void the factory warranty re-flashing using AP? or does re-flashing it to stock fix that problem? can the dealership tell it's been re-flashed?

[snailD]

Originally Posted by Crash8308 I am also wanting to know about reliability. is my engine going to suffer durability for using AP to re-flash? also, does it void the factory warranty re-flashing using AP? or does re-flashing it to stock fix that problem? can the dealership tell it's been re-flashed?

just so you know, last post in this thread was in 09.....

and from what i have heard, the dealership can find out how many times the ecu has been reflashed, but they cant see what was flashed on it, besides the current map, so uninstall before you go for a visit.

cobb has stated their vehicles have no suffered anything weird from the hundreds of reflashes they do

[wisniaPl]

should I get ap i hAve problems with my piasini flash....im fully bolted and cant change tune or anythin so i need to change tuning solution....should i get one?? Im getting codes and car is running def to lean 12.8 afr

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by wisniaPl should I get ap i hAve problems with my piasini flash....im fully bolted and cant change tune or anythin so i need to change tuning solution....should i get one?? Im getting codes and car is running def to lean 12.8 afr

Whats the outside temps that is putting you at 12.8? If its below 60., you can wire in a variable resistor and lock the IAT in at 65F. This will keep the car from adding timing in lower temps, which is causing your car to lean out.

Otherwise, to use an AP on a Piasini flash, you will need to get your ECU reflashed with a stock map before attaching the AP.

[martyxattack]

12.8 at what

[wisniaPl]

at wot its 12.8 and after 4250rpms goes to flat 12.5
it was on dyno and it was around 55 degrees outside...either way I fixed it was my bpv that was getting stuck and I was spiking so much and geting boost cuts...

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Holy fucking bump from the dead!

@Dash08 lol