Yo! check my logs plz.

[mr_mazda329]

Hey HOES! I finally got around to doing some datalogs after installing my CPE HPFP. And I would like some input/advice if i should try to up the boost or any other tweaks.

*Both logs are 3-4th gear pulls. ambient around 50's or so @ about 2300ft elev.

My mods are as follows.

-Cobb AP Stg1 SF FMIC 93oct (running 91 oct fuel but with lowered timing to support the map) +TPS smoothing
-CS TP/CBE
-CX Racing FMIC
-Cobb SRI (AMSoil filter y0)
-TIP
-ITV22's gapped @ .030
-CPE HPFP
-NGR Type-S BPV

Map notes says it should target 18psi and taper down to 16psi by redline.

and yes this is what I ran the Stg2 EvoX on (lost 40-140 by 3-4 cars). So help me chase his ass down.

Thanks

[R.MS3]

Everything looks good dawg! I would just say you're overboosting a little but it's not a big problem as your wastegate still got plenty to go.

Is everything updated with your AP? I would try my hands on some BOOST tuning using ATR so you can achieve better boost targets. These boost readings are all over the place lol. After everything is good with this map, i would get a DP and beat your friend's ass next time.

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by R.MS3 Everything looks good dawg! I would just say you're overboosting a little but it's not a big problem as your wastegate still got plenty to go. Is everything updated with your AP? I would try my hands on some BOOST tuning using ATR so you can achieve better boost targets. These boost readings are all over the place lol. After everything is good with this map, i would get a DP and beat your friend's ass next time.

Not sure what you mean by boost is all over the place. I spiked and settled pretty much like anybody else. High spike is from cold temps no?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Hey HOES! I finally got around to doing some datalogs after installing my CPE HPFP. And I would like some input/advice if i should try to up the boost or any other tweaks. *Both logs are 3-4th gear pulls. ambient around 50's or so @ about 2300ft elev. My mods are as follows. -Cobb AP Stg1 SF FMIC 93oct (running 91 oct fuel but with lowered timing to support the map) +TPS smoothing -CS TP/CBE -CX Racing FMIC -Cobb SRI (AMSoil filter y0) -TIP -ITV22's gapped @ .030 -CPE HPFP -NGR Type-S BPV Map notes says it should target 18psi and taper down to 16psi by redline. and yes this is what I ran the Stg2 EvoX on (lost 40-140 by 3-4 cars). So help me chase his ass down. Thanks

You could take boost 1-2psi higher where it falls to ~16psi. There's still ~15-20hp left on the table in the upper end.

[I Love Brownies]

Boost based tuning FTMFW. no spike whats so ever. the ecu works ten times faster then load based tuning. dial it in to 18 psi and you would be golden sir

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by Lex You could take boost 1-2psi higher where it falls to ~16psi. There's still ~15-20hp left on the table in the upper end.

Thats good to know. How's my LTFTs look? On the negative side but high value.

Originally Posted by ms307nm Boost based tuning FTMFW. no spike whats so ever. the ecu works ten times faster then load based tuning. dial it in to 18 psi and you would be golden sir

And this requires a MBC.. correct?

[I Love Brownies]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Thats good to know. How's my LTFTs look? On the negative side but high value. And this requires a MBC.. correct?

no sir. mine is all done with the ap. i haz no mbc. before on load based tuning i was looking for 18 psi but when i would load in 3rd gear i would spike to 22 or so (not good) tune was mediocre. then we went the route of boost based and my car hits 18 no spike and pulls like a beast.

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by ms307nm no sir. mine is all done with the ap. i haz no mbc. before on load based tuning i was looking for 18 psi but when i would load in 3rd gear i would spike to 22 or so (not good) tune was mediocre. then we went the route of boost based and my car hits 18 no spike and pulls like a beast.

Yea. I'm reading Dano's write-up now actually. This is all new to me.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Thats good to know. How's my LTFTs look? On the negative side but high value.

-4 is not high. I see changes from 0 to -3 from the weather alone.

Negative means that your MAF curve is telling the ECU there is more air than there actually is. As long as you stay within +/- 8 there isn't much to worry about with OTS maps. Otherwise you can cal your MAF table. The WOT AFR targets look fairly spot on.

You are getting a bit of a spike to 20 that tapers down - probably due to your BOV. I would get ATR and target around 18psi to 6k and then drop to 17.

[R.MS3]

Originally Posted by Lex -4 is not high. I see changes from 0 to -3 from the weather alone. Negative means that your MAF curve is telling the ECU there is more air than there actually is. As long as you stay within +/- 8 there isn't much to worry about with OTS maps. Otherwise you can cal your MAF table. The WOT AFR targets look fairly spot on. You are getting a bit of a spike to 20 that tapers down - probably due to your BOV. I would get ATR and target around 18psi to 6k and then drop to 17.

I thought our turbos were better off seeing about 16psi max by 6500 since it's just producing hot air at this point no? Pushing 18psi all the way to 6k is stressing the turbo IMO.

Since you have a FMIC, i would read on the boost based tuning like you're already doing and start with 18.5psi at 3k rpm (limit boost to like 16psi max before that) and bring it down to 16psi by redline. Just a suggestion.

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by Lex -4 is not high. I see changes from 0 to -3 from the weather alone. Negative means that your MAF curve is telling the ECU there is more air than there actually is. As long as you stay within +/- 8 there isn't much to worry about with OTS maps. Otherwise you can cal your MAF table. The WOT AFR targets look fairly spot on. You are getting a bit of a spike to 20 that tapers down - probably due to your BOV. I would get ATR and target around 18psi to 6k and then drop to 17.

Okay I'll switch out my my BPV for this Forge that is just laying around and see whats up. Maybe even do the stocker.

[jwilkins88]

What Lex said...

Everything looks great except for that initial boost spike. You could definitely get some more powar by raising the boost at red line a bit.

Lookin' good son!

[Cataphract_40]

Like I suggested in our other convo, see if you can get ahold of the newest version of ATR, then start the boost based goodness. Keep us posted on the progress dude!

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by Cataphract_40 Like I suggested in our other convo, see if you can get ahold of the newest version of ATR, then start the boost based goodness. Keep us posted on the progress dude!

I will. I submitted the online request so hopefully I can start tomorrow. I do have a question about it. Just like throttle smoothing, the tables effected are different between 07/08 and the 09's. Are they the same for BBT?

[Cataphract_40]

Not sure about that. In my ATR, the 'use boost based tuning' check box doesn't make any tables appear or disappear or anything like that. It just changes the way the ECU reads them. Boost Targets becomes the big one

[mr_mazda329]

okay.. here's some logs from last night using the Boost based tuning map like in Dano's thread.

I'm about to go out and do some more with a different BPV to rule out any possibility of leaks.

[R.MS3]

Your AFR's are all over the place, instead of getting richer, they leaning out as your raise RPM. Something is wrong with either your fuel tables or your MAF calibration. I heard for those with internals or aftermarket pump, a MAF calibration needs to be re-done.

It's also probably why you're getting that knock, which is a little worrying.

[mr_mazda329]

Alright.. here's two more with the other (forge) BPV just now. Car definitely didnt pull as hard as with my NGR valve. Maybe the forge is actually leaking? Next i am gonna try with the stocker valve later on. See how it does. But say if it doesnt do any better, i should increase the WGDC towards redline so my boost doesnt taper off as hard? I'm supposed to have 17-16psi by 6500

[R.MS3]

Do you plan on just ignoring the KR warning signs? Pretty much all your logs have good amount of KR at high RPM + 18psi of boost which i shouldn't tell you it's pretty dangerous.

To me, you need to fix your AFR's first and foremost before trying to hold that amount of boost at 6k+ RPM. First thing you do when tuning is start conservative, then work your way up. That's starting with the most important, AFR.

I would double check for leaks, how are your trims at idle? Not holding boost and having funky AFR's can be two problems caused by a leak.

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by R.MS3 Do you plan on just ignoring the KR warning signs? Pretty much all your logs have good amount of KR at high RPM + 18psi of boost which i shouldn't tell you it's pretty dangerous. To me, you need to fix your AFR's first and foremost before trying to hold that amount of boost at 6k+ RPM. First thing you do when tuning is start conservative, then work your way up. That's starting with the most important, AFR. I would double check for leaks, how are your trims at idle? Not holding boost and having funky AFR's can be two problems caused by a leak.

First off. There was only one log that had high amounts of knock @ higher RPMS out of the bunch. 0.3-0.7 really isnt shit tho on the others. As for the AFR's, its set to w/e the OTS tune is set for so I havent dug into that yet. My AFR's are still on the safe side of mid 11's. I am gonna go into the timing tables and pull about 1.5* so I'm not maxing out @ 13.5 near redline.

Just gotta work one issue at a time. Dont want to make too many changes @ once or else I wont know what did the trick to solve w/e issues am having.

thanks for your concern tho. I'm not ignoring your advice.

[R.MS3]

There are 3 logs where your KR exceeds 1 past 5k rpm...

Your AFR LEANS out as your RPM's increase, that's a problem. Please look @ Datalog 17 and you will see a 12.8AFR @18psi of boost. Keep looking at that datalog 17 and you will see you hold a steady 12 to high 11's. Then just a tiny bit of KR, 0.7, richens you up real quick, then you're back into 12's again.

Also remember that past 5700RPM your KR sensor shuts off. Look at Datalog 14 and you will see exactly what i'm talking about. You have a KR of 2.45 @5600RPM then suddenly, it goes to 0. This means your car is still knocking past that point but the ECU can't do nothing about it (by retarding timing).

ALL of these problems can be solved by doing a simple MAF calibration if there are no leaks. You probably won't even have to play with timing on a stage 1, at least not decrease more than the OTS map. Keep a steady mid 11's AFR and most of your problems will go away and you will actually have more power without the ECU interfering.

My suggestion is just start from scratch and follow the Cobb Helpfile for step-by-step instructions, starting from the MAF calibration. Turn on boost tuning, easier. Just trying to help.

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by R.MS3 There are 3 logs where your KR exceeds 1 past 5k rpm... Your AFR LEANS out as your RPM's increase, that's a problem. Please look @ Datalog 17 and you will see a 12.8AFR @18psi of boost. Keep looking at that datalog 17 and you will see you hold a steady 12 to high 11's. Then just a tiny bit of KR, 0.7, richens you up real quick, then you're back into 12's again. Also remember that past 5700RPM your KR sensor shuts off. Look at Datalog 14 and you will see exactly what i'm talking about. You have a KR of 2.45 @5600RPM then suddenly, it goes to 0. This means your car is still knocking past that point but the ECU can't do nothing about it (by retarding timing). ALL of these problems can be solved by doing a simple MAF calibration if there are no leaks. You probably won't even have to play with timing on a stage 1, at least not decrease more than the OTS map. Keep a steady mid 11's AFR and most of your problems will go away and you will actually have more power without the ECU interfering. My suggestion is just start from scratch and follow the Cobb Helpfile for step-by-step instructions, starting from the MAF calibration. Turn on boost tuning, easier. Just trying to help.

I'm am working on the commanded fuel. Base map showed that it wouldnt see 11.4 till about 5k. Thats a fail. I knocked it down to 11.5 around 3k and tapering down to 11.1 @ 6500. I think the reason I saw 12.8 lean AFR @ 18psi is due prolly because of how laggy the CL/OL transitions are, right?

As for the MAF cal, never really had to do it because my LTFTs were always within the 0+/- 8 limits that cobb recommends. On avg, they would be around -4.3 to -3.2 cruising and around -1.3 idle. But.. I guess I can try to fine tune it more. Wouldnt hurt to.

Appreciate the help.

[R.MS3]

Remember there are TWO parts to MAF calibration, one is for CL operation and the other is for OL operation.

What most people don't realize is that once fuel trims are outta the equation, you gotta base yourself on AFR's to make the calibration for your WOT range of the MAF curve. You can base yourself on fuel trims to know if your calibration is good for CL operation, not OL/WOT. The CL calibration might be good, but the OL might need adjustments. But BEFORE you even start tuning, make sure all your hardware are in good condition. Put the stock tune on, and check how your fuel trims behave. On the stock tune, the trims will usually give you a good measure of any problems like leaks. If it's more than like +15, you might have a hardware problem. Make sure to do logs on the stock tune and if everything is fine for AFR's, KR, Boost, Timing, and FP, move on to the OTS map and tweak it with ATR.

Also, if you havent tweaked these tables, do so: Closed Loop Tables It will quicken your transition from CL to OL

And this quote is directly from DJ, when i was learning with him the in and outs of tuning, enjoy:

Always start with a maf cal. All of your ecu's calculations start with the MAF sensor. The maf sensor tells the ecu how much air is coming into the motor. The ecu then uses this information to determine "load", and it uses load to determine fueling. So your MAF sensor directly determines fueling. Your ecu also has fuel trims, basically fueling adjustments (sorry if you already know some of this stuff, but i'm just gonna be thorough). When in closed loop, your ecu looks at the maf sensor to determine airflow, divides the total airflow down and compensates for various temps to determine how much air goes into each cylinder directly (this is load), and then uses that load to determine how much fuel to squirt into that cylinder. After that, the ecu looks at the wideband and narrowband o2 sensors to see what the resulting afr was. If the resulting afr was lean, then the ecu will increase it's fuel trims (more positive) and apply that to future fueling for that maf voltage. If the afr's are rich, then it'll use a negative fuel trim to pull fuel for that specific maf voltage. There are 2 banks of fuel trims, short term and long term (STFT & LTFT respectively). The short term bank is used for immediate adjustment based on o2 sensor feedback. If the ecu see's that it's constantly using the same STFT for a given maf voltage, then it'll move that value to the long term bank, so that it's always applied, and the STFT will zero out. Now onto calibrating the maf: The goal of calibrating a maf is to basically zero out the fuel trims, so that the ecu isn't having to add or pull any fuel for all maf voltages (all airflow). This is done in 2 parts, one for closed loop and one for open loop. Closed loop- This is the easy one. You simply do a log going from a very low maf g/s value, slowly depressing the pedal and increasing it up. Basically your walking the MAF sensor across the voltage range. Do this while monitoring MAF g/s on the AP, and take it from like 10 g/s or so (light cruise) to over 130 g/s. Don't press the gas too quickly cause you'll induce tip-in enrichment. Just very slowly modulate the pedal down, starting from pretty low rpm in like 3rd gear, and keep increasing it to slowly increase g/s. Then do a second log in neutral, simply going from idle to over 30 g/s. With those 2 logs together you've exercised the MAF sensor across the complete closed loop g/s range. You want to log: MAF g/s, MAF voltage, LTFT, STFT, Throttle position, KR and that's basically it. Make sure there is no KR in the log, cause that may be adding fuel and throwing off your calibration. You'll see the obvious fuel trims "zones" that the ecu uses for LTFT's. What you want to do is determine the amount of fuel "trimming" the ecu is doing for each voltage range. So you add STFT and LTFT together, to get total trimming for each of the various MAF voltages. Then you open up ATR and go to your MAF table (A & B, you need to change both, just do A first, and then copy and paste into B). You want to multiply each of the voltage segments by the same amount as STFT + LTFT (total trims). for instance, if STFT + LTFT = 17 or something, then you'd multiply that voltage range by 1.17. And if STFT + LTFT = -8, you'd multiply by 0.92. You don't have to do it for each individual cell, that would take forever. You'll see ranges that there are consistent trims applied, simply highlight that whole range and multiply it accordingly. Also, don't pain yourself to make your trims exactly 0. They'll never be zero. Anything +/- 8 is plenty good. Open Loop calibration: This one is a bit more tricky, cause we don't have those handy fuel trims to go off of. Instead all we have is our AFR's from the o2 sensor. You can look at the OL WOT fuel tables, and see what AFR's your map is calling for, usually like mid 11's or so. Then you do a WOT log in like 3rd gear again (make sure your afr's are safe before doing this). Look at the afr's during your wot pull, and if they are different than what your OL WOT fuel table calls for, you need to adjust your MAF curve. Divide your logged AFR by your map's requested AFR to get a percentage of how far off you are, and multiply that corresponding maf voltage by the same percentage. You want to log: MAF g/s, MAF voltage, Boost, KR, AFR, and Calculated Load and that's probably it (i'm just quickly typing this up lol, need to get back to work soon ). example: Logged AFR's are 10.5 and the map is requesting 11.5. 10.5 / 11.5 = 0.913. Multiply that MAF voltage range by 0.913, and it'll tell the ecu there is less air going in, thus pulling a bit of fuel. Or if your logged AFR is 12.5 and map requests 11.5, you get 12.5 / 11.5 = 1.087, so you use that as your multiplier to tell the ecu there is 8.7% more air coming in, thus adding fuel. You'll notice the MAF voltage increases with rpm's, so you'll basically compare the AFR's for each rpm zone, and make the adjustments to that corresponding MAF voltage.