HP level essentials

[Tokay444]

It's always better to build for more power than you'll ever make.

[chaser27]

Originally Posted by VegasChef I would love to see an internals section on here when we are talking about HP numbers. What internals are necessary for what hp levels, obviously i know anything past 400 will need a built motor but how heavily built? If I want 500 vs 800 my internal set up will be different. At what point in time is head work necessary? H beam or I beam? upgraded head studs and not just some regular arp but the upgraded one? When is boring necessary? What about pistons ad the correct piston choice for your HP levels? Possibly even include what meth kit or aux fueling options and at what HP level you need to look into this. -granted there is a note on the file it might be cool to see when you actually need it and how much is needed. The 800hp guys probably aren't just on some PI set up I'm looking to build my motor in the next year or so and all of these questions have popped up. Do I just go balls to the wall or at what point are the upgrades unnecessary for my HP numbers

It would be nice to have a list somewhere of part numbers of stuff you need for x amount of hp, but there are far too many variables that go into it. Climate, goals, power curve, fuel, etc. Finding what you need in a table that large would be harder than just searching on MSF. Even 300hp is going to take different mods for different people.

[Tokay444]

Building your car isn't something that should be spoon fed to you.

[VegasChef]

Granted I'm not trying to be spoon fed, but it seems with the list we are pulling the plane out of the hangar and lining it up on the runway for people.

I do my research and read a ton about stuff. If the list is being made why not include internals is all I'm saying.

[MazdaBoy2.3]

Originally Posted by VegasChef Granted I'm not trying to be spoon fed, but it seems with the list we are pulling the plane out of the hangar and lining it up on the runway for people. I do my research and read a ton about stuff. If the list is being made why not include internals is all I'm saying.

Rob has been kind enough to generate this list, yet people still aren't happy....

Create and edit your own spreadsheet that contains this info. I'm sure people will leave feedback for you to fill it with. I bet you will be surprised how much time this takes.

[Tokay444]

Make sure to include ring gaps, piston to wall clearances, and bearing clearances for all the relative hp levels while you're at it.

[VegasChef]

Originally Posted by MazdaBoy2.3 Rob has been kind enough to generate this list, yet people still aren't happy.... Create and edit your own spreadsheet that contains this info. I'm sure people will leave feedback for you to fill it with. I bet you will be surprised how much time this takes.

Dude there is no point in time where I was discounting Robs work to put this spreadsheet together. I think its awesome and a great tool for people to use as a reference.

I thought the idea was to build the list and add ideas for it. If that's not the case then ill keep to myself...Just trying to make some suggestions for an information database.

I realize there is a lot more that goes into being built but when you have a list that is telling you requirements of being 500hp plus it would be cool to include this info.

Correct me if I am wrong. Im all about sharing knowledge and being knowledgeable at the same time. I knew nothing of this platform when I got my car over a year ago and it has been a long road full of alot of trial and error. My knowledge base is still growing every day.

I would be more than happy to create/provide input on a list for the community because that's what we are..

[kylejenson]

I haven't viewed the file yet because I'm on my phone, but I'm stoked to see it. Sounds like a good compilation of info!
And not that anyone should be expected to compile info on building a motor, but a lot of what I've read hasn't informed me (a huge noob) when or why, but just what they are [using].
I guess it'll just take a shit load of time sifting through the stuff I already know.

[VegasChef]

@rfinkle2

Sence I got so much flack for asking and not contributing I have taken your list and modified it to add in the engine internals for what I know is available from going through edge/the SP63 website. I did not include bearings. It is formatted for you to use as you would like, I can remove it if you would like as well but I thought I would go through and do some of the work for you.

Im not an expert and could not comment on recommendations for certain parts and I hope that you would be-able to.

[Ozynigma]

Originally Posted by VegasChef @rfinkle2 Sence I got so much flack for asking and not contributing I have taken your list and modified it to add in the engine internals for what I know is available from going through edge/the SP63 website. I did not include bearings. It is formatted for you to use as you would like, I can remove it if you would like as well but I thought I would go through and do some of the work for you. Im not an expert and could not comment on recommendations for certain parts and I hope that you would be-able to.

Thanks for the spoon-feeding

This spreadsheet could turn into a cook book for Mazda DISI horsepower. Just follow the recipe hehehe

[neganox]

Sooo according this to chart, @Easter Bunny; mouth hugs will clear up this knock threshold I'm hitting.


My body is ready.

[Easter Bunny]

@rfinkle2; thanks for adding me to the spreadsheet now guys are lining up to blow me.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

It's like what you've been pounding into my head has been put on paper....without you pounding your head agaisnt your keyboard.

Awesome write up! Also....FIRST POST BACK!

[shaneski]

Originally Posted by VegasChef @rfinkle2 Sence I got so much flack for asking and not contributing I have taken your list and modified it to add in the engine internals for what I know is available from going through edge/the SP63 website. I did not include bearings. It is formatted for you to use as you would like, I can remove it if you would like as well but I thought I would go through and do some of the work for you. Im not an expert and could not comment on recommendations for certain parts and I hope that you would be-able to.

I think Robs idea is listing what is tried and tested, just adding parts that advertise will make fast car but possibly doesn't do what it advertised just gets the whole thing out of hand.

[Ziggo]

Looks pretty good, but is missing fueling information. Ie for 350/400 you are going to need a meth kit or to run E85, at above 400 if you are not doing a very heavy meth spray you are going to need a 5th port or PI setup.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by VegasChef I would love to see an internals section on here when we are talking about HP numbers. What internals are necessary for what hp levels, obviously i know anything past 400 will need a built motor but how heavily built? If I want 500 vs 800 my internal set up will be different. At what point in time is head work necessary? H beam or I beam? upgraded head studs and not just some regular arp but the upgraded one? When is boring necessary? What about pistons ad the correct piston choice for your HP levels? Possibly even include what meth kit or aux fueling options and at what HP level you need to look into this. -granted there is a note on the file it might be cool to see when you actually need it and how much is needed. The 800hp guys probably aren't just on some PI set up I'm looking to build my motor in the next year or so and all of these questions have popped up. Do I just go balls to the wall or at what point are the upgrades unnecessary for my HP numbers

Originally Posted by Ziggo Looks pretty good, but is missing fueling information. Ie for 350/400 you are going to need a meth kit or to run E85, at above 400 if you are not doing a very heavy meth spray you are going to need a 5th port or PI setup.

I had all of that in an earlier version, but was teasing the Easter Bunny and must have overwrote it. LOL

[Easter Bunny]

*overwritten.

[BackRoads]

Beware the Easter Bunny.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny *overwritten.

LOL. ^ overwritten. Thank you Easter Bunny.

[Cheapspeed]

I posted this in Edge's BT question thread but got no responses.

I did a search and didn't find much on it, besides a speed6 that went on a 3071 EWG w/stock cat back and upgraded TMIC and still made like 390whp on a dyno (more than my stock block could probably handle right now). Not sure about his fueling or his tuner. MS6 3071 dyno

Is my stock catback really a restriction for the gtx3076 w/EWG?

My only thought is that is might not be when it's dumping, but maybe it would slow spool time?

Most people have already upgraded their catback by the time they go BT so it's probably never an issue.

[maisonvi]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed I posted this in Edge's BT question thread but got no responses. I did a search and didn't find much on it, besides a speed6 that went on a 3071 EWG w/stock cat back and upgraded TMIC and still made like 390whp on a dyno (more than my stock block could probably handle right now). Not sure about his fueling or his tuner. MS6 3071 dyno Is my stock catback really a restriction for the gtx3076 w/EWG? My only thought is that is might not be when it's dumping, but maybe it would slow spool time? Most people have already upgraded their catback by the time they go BT so it's probably never an issue.

I had my hta3076 EWG tuned to about 365whp on 93 with the stock exhaust (catless DP though) Put on a Greddy TI-C 80mm exhaust and with no changes in the tune, I picked up 15whp. So yeah, I bet its holding you back.

[PL ENDO]

i would love to see how hotter and colder plugs would effect power. maybe get someone with a dyno day to do 3 pulls on different stage plugs with meth and e85 to see what would be best for fuel and boost levels.

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 It's always better to build for more power than you'll ever make.

Wise words from the grumpy old man. Signature worthy for sure.

Originally Posted by PL ENDO i would love to see how hotter and colder plugs would effect power. maybe get someone with a dyno day to do 3 pulls on different stage plugs with meth and e85 to see what would be best for fuel and boost levels.

Waht....

The proof is already out there between plugs and fueling or fueling and plugs

Just find two similar Gen speeds with the same exact modifications running the difference...Im sure you can find it..

Goodlike finding someone running all of that in a dyno day lol

[Justin@Freektune]

Originally Posted by PL ENDO i would love to see how hotter and colder plugs would effect power. maybe get someone with a dyno day to do 3 pulls on different stage plugs with meth and e85 to see what would be best for fuel and boost levels.

The key is reading the plugs. This is what happens when you go by he said she said (this is two steps colder in an ST cause fors racing says to use them on their tune) ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426121208.528671.jpg

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune The key is reading the plugs. This is what happens when you go by he said she said (this is two steps colder in an ST cause fors racing says to use them on their tune) Attachment 193366

oh so you do still post on the forums.. lol

2steps? really

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune The key is reading the plugs. This is what happens when you go by he said she said (this is two steps colder in an ST cause fors racing says to use them on their tune) Attachment 193366

I've been telling the ST guys stock heats should be fine but nooooooo.

[MD1032]

Damn, talk about cold. Never seen anything like that in my life. Even the very top of the ceramic is black.

Thank you for posting this guide, Rob. The only thing I am confused about is that methanol injection is marked "necessary" for 300-350 HP and "recommended" for 350-400 HP.

It seems from reading on here that I could make enough torque on just 93 with a big turbo to bend a rod, regardless of whether or not the in-cylinder temperatures would be safe for the long term. I am not sure. Some of the BT builds on here are poorly documented and I have discovered some authors are running methanol or E85 without documenting it (perhaps because it’s assumed…this is where my inner noob shows)…

[Nitr0EngiE]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I think that would be a good idea, but what I'm trying to do is make a HP mod path based on what are widely generally accepted facts vs opinions on what should be needed. I guess the argument could be made that a RMM is essential if your car is making 350 hp, but I'd prefer the owner of the car choose the duro they are comfortable with etc. E.g. people might think I'm nuts, but my car has never had anything but a RMM on it, and although I may put a PMM or TMM @ some point, I don't feel it necessary @ my power level. I'm not sure what power level they are needed really. Same goes for plugs.. I am out in left field with my opinions on plugs, and I see some guys running stock range plugs making big HP, so there are a lot of what if's that are hard to cover with things that are probably best left up to the tuner or car owner. I don't want to shoot down anyone's suggestions, and the mount idea was a good one, and I definitely considered it.. so please, keep the suggestions coming and they are appreciated.

To support this statement or at least provide contrast to it:

I have never had any luck with colder plugs my car always ends up fouling them out or they break or they just fucking suck and need replacing after 500 miles sometimes which results in misfiring out the ass under light boost or any boost, My car never runs better when I use stock plugs. (the NGK version if you notice has same model on it as OEM)

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE To support this statement or at least provide contrast to it: I have never had any luck with colder plugs my car always ends up fouling them out or they break or they just fucking suck and need replacing after 500 miles sometimes which results in misfiring out the ass under light boost or any boost, My car never runs better when I use stock plugs. (the NGK version if you notice has same model on it as OEM)

I can +1 to you on this.


Can't tell you how many times and different plugs and gap sizes I've cycled through. OEM Ford plugs or stock heat range NGK plugs always ended up solving my problems and lasting much longer.

[Nitr0EngiE]

Originally Posted by SBMS316 I can +1 to you on this. Can't tell you how many times and different plugs and gap sizes I've cycled through. OEM Ford plugs or stock heat range NGK plugs always ended up solving my problems and lasting much longer.

to add to that I have never had to replace stock plugs due to mis firing or failure or foulage btu I have had colder plugs cause me countless countless problems

[everton99]

I'll add my .02 cents to this. I have a few bolt ons (TMIC, HPFP, TBE, SRI+TIP, and Freektune) my car is making rather dismal power. No boost leaks or any problem. I was told by Justin to go back to my stock plugs after running both NGK and Densos and I actually (and take this with a grain of salt it is vDyno) picked up 18 HP and 8 pounds of torque. On 93 I'm now making 268/310.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by everton99 I'll add my .02 cents to this. I have a few bolt ons (TMIC, HPFP, TBE, SRI+TIP, and Freektune) my car is making rather dismal power. No boost leaks or any problem. I was told by Justin to go back to my stock plugs after running both NGK and Densos and I actually (and take this with a grain of salt it is vDyno) picked up 18 HP and 8 pounds of torque. On 93 I'm now making 268/310. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

By stock do you mean stock heat or oem? I wouldn't even know what an oem plug was.

[everton99]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed By stock do you mean stock heat or oem? I wouldn't even know what an oem plug was.

Plugs that were in the car when I bought it from Mazda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk