Not the first big turbo ST

[Lex]

It would be very interesting to see at what point the exhaust manifold cast into the head becomes an issue. If the motor can get to 400whp with a decent power band that's all that 98% of the owners will ever need.

[EricM]

Originally Posted by Lex It would be very interesting to see at what point the exhaust manifold cast into the head becomes an issue. If the motor can get to 400whp with a decent power band that's all that 98% of the owners will ever need.

I honestly don't think it will be an issue at 400whp. While I don't know about boost creep issues, I wouldn't think that will be a bottleneck until higher levels. But I think the real problem right now is knowing what kind of power the pump will even support. I know Kmac was running pretty high pressures before he tore the car down again, but he wasn't quite at 400 yet.

[ms3rick]

Sex welcome subbed

[Chamber]

Update:
Ordered the turbo today through Ollie at OCDSpeed. Borg Warner EFR 6758 T25, 0.64 A/R, 3" V-band discharge. I asked him to take plenty of pictures of the process of making the adapter. Also have OCDSpeed IC hard pipe kit and Corsair's intake runner spacer and symposer delete plate on the way. Guys at Edge Autosport offered to install the kit when it arrives and do a write up, so I'll get with JP or Alan in a few weeks when I have everything in. Still need to get the FMIC, which is priced at $999.00 plus shipping. Was hoping it would be lower, but I've kinda come too far to be bothered by a few hundred dollars. I'm holding off on the LSD for now and plan to add that to my phase 2: LSD, clutch/flywheel, HPFP. Still looking into tuning options.

Pics:
Finished IC piping


Intake Runner Plate

[EricM]

Sweet shit. What made you go with an EFR turbo?

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by EricM Sweet shit. What made you go with an EFR turbo?

Best bang for your buck and good reviews. High flowing IWG (42mm, I believe), integrated EBCS, integrated BPV, quick spool, nice flow rate (49lb/min max). Also got it for under $1500. Just seemed perfect for my goals. Priced other turbos, and while they were around the same price or cheaper, you'd also have to factor in the cost of an EWG, BOV, and EBCS/MBC. Maybe when I get the RS I'll go that route.

[Lex]

EFR turbos are an excellent choice.

[robspeed3]

How much did he charge you for the adapter??

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by robspeed3 How much did he charge you for the adapter??

Nothing so far. Since I'm "funding his R&D" the adapter is free. If a new DP is needed, he'll only charge me the price of materials. I'm not sure what he plans to sell it for. I'm sure it'll be part of a kit until other people confirm the fitment with other turbos. I imagine the 6258 will be a nice alternative for people only wanting a mild bump in power without having to throw down money for an upgraded HPFP, clutch/flywheel, LSD, etc.

[Chamber]

Update via email:
"Ordered today;
Borg 179388 Turbo
Special EFR V-band Outlet Flange
T25 Fire-seal gasket
T25 Flanges, 3/8 304SS

My turbo guy recommended I purchase the installation kit, (179423) but
I'm going to go through the drawings and find out what is needed and
what isn't.. I have a feeling several of the small parts will swap
over from the stock turbo. I just need the cylinder head outlet flange
dimensions.. I'll need to measure a stock turbo compressor inlet, or
find the drawings. I'll keep you posted with the progress.. Really looking forward to
seeing this upgrade ready to roll."

Anyone know what the dimensions are on the exhaust "headifold" opening?

Also:
@EdgeAutosport.com;

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Wow! Where have I been for this build thread? lol! Welcome to MSF!! We are very much looking forward to getting that turbo on your car!

[Chamber]

It has begun:

[robspeed3]

Originally Posted by Chamber It has begun:

How much as everything cost so far?

[Chamber]

Turbo - $1460
BPV/BOV - $150
AP - $400
Intake Runner Plate - $240
IC Piping - $275
Catted DP - $400
Intake - $200
Total - $3125

Still need/want:
LSD - $980
FMIC - $600 - $1k
Exhaust - $850
Clutch/Flywheel - $700

Most of the stuff I already had, bought over the past year. Since planning the build, I've bought the turbo, ic piping, and intake runner plate.

[robspeed3]

Ok so it looks like all I need is the turbo and adapter I have everything else already

[Chamber]

Stock FST V-band vs EFR V-band.. FST is larger by .100 diameter, about .020 on thickness. Looking into solutions, short of a new DP. Ollie is drawing something up in SolidWorks.



Random shots of the 6758:

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Chamber Turbo - $1460 BPV/BOV - $150 AP - $400 Intake Runner Plate - $240 IC Piping - $275 Catted DP - $400 Intake - $200 Total - $3125

I'm sorry if i've missed it, but what exactly is the point of this? is it supposed to be like a "throttle body spacer" on N/A applications?

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I'm sorry if i've missed it, but what exactly is the point of this? is it supposed to be like a "throttle body spacer" on N/A applications?

It smooths the transition from the IM to the intake port.

Problem:


You can see the outline of the IM runner. I'm no expert, but I know air doesn't like hitting a wall.

Solution:


It 'cuts' the air using a bulleted transition. It should (hopefully) improve air flow, especially in the upper RPM range.

Before Dyno:


After Dyno:


The dynos were a few weeks apart, similar conditions. The after added the intake runner plate and throttle body spacer plus a new tune incorporating the added plenum volume. So far results haven't been duplicated due to: 1. very few of these plates out. They're being mass produced this past weekend/upcoming week, 2. the people that do have them haven't dynoed their cars yet (a few said they'll dyno in the next few weeks), and 3. You can't adjust for plenum volume using AccessTuner yet. That ability will be released with August 22nd update. Even if the results are atypical, even half the gains might be worth it.

[outshined]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I'm sorry if i've missed it, but what exactly is the point of this? is it supposed to be like a "throttle body spacer" on N/A applications?

On the ST, it appears that the spacer helps to smooth the airflow in the transition from intake manifold to head. Porting would normally be the solution, but the spacer can be slipped into place without removing the head.

[Chamber]

I've been in touch with Mountune concerning their MR350 package. This is the identical package that is on Ken Block and Fifteen52's TrackSTer. Turns out they plan on selling the components individually which include forged rods, pistons, uprated DI injectors, and cams. I'm beginning to think this is just going to be my overall build thread and that I'm about to drop way more money then I had initially intended. Also looked into a BBK. TCE has custom kits that incorporate Wilwood parts. Wilwood also sales their own kits. I'm going over the pros and cons now. I don't really ever plan to auto-x or race, but I do go running in the mountains often. I'm thinking just the 6-piston calipers, aftermarket pads, and oem rotors should be fine. On the turbo front, should be getting an update tonight or tomorrow. Mock up was yesterday/today. Hopefully have plenty of pictures to share. Still looking into which FMIC I want to get. I'm getting shipping quotes on the Airtec and Pro Alloy.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Chamber I've been in touch with Mountune concerning their MR350 package. This is the identical package that is on Ken Block and Fifteen52's TrackSTer. Turns out they plan on selling the components individually which include forged rods, pistons, uprated DI injectors, and cams. I'm beginning to think this is just going to be my overall build thread and that I'm about to drop way more money then I had initially intended. Also looked into a BBK. TCE has custom kits that incorporate Wilwood parts. Wilwood also sales their own kits. I'm going over the pros and cons now. I don't really ever plan to auto-x or race, but I do go running in the mountains often. I'm thinking just the 6-piston calipers, aftermarket pads, and oem rotors should be fine. On the turbo front, should be getting an update tonight or tomorrow. Mock up was yesterday/today. Hopefully have plenty of pictures to share. Still looking into which FMIC I want to get. I'm getting shipping quotes on the Airtec and Pro Alloy.

How does torque vectoring work with the upgraded brakes? Since the dynamics of the car rely on the brakes so much changes in the brakes can upset the balance. Does TCE offer any info regarding this? I've seen their kits but didn't see any further info.

Also where is Mountune getting their upgraded injectors from? I don't see anything on their site like this for the 2012+ ST.

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by Lex How does torque vectoring work with the upgraded brakes? Since the dynamics of the car rely on the brakes so much changes in the brakes can upset the balance. Does TCE offer any info regarding this? I've seen their kits but didn't see any further info. Also where is Mountune getting their upgraded injectors from? I don't see anything on their site like this for the 2012+ ST.

I feel like I've read this before, I'm not finding any threads on the topic. I'm pretty sure people have said the ECU compensates for the better brakes. I've asked Todd at TCE if he knows anything about it. I'll let you know what information I can find.

I have no idea and I doubt they'll tell me. If you go to Mountune's facebook and find a post marked August 12, they list the components of their MR350 kit. Ken Anderson did confirm existence of the parts. He sent me this email:

"[Chamber] ,
Thanks for your interest in the MR350 components.

We will be offering all of the items separately and they will be in stock
in our USA facility as soon as possible. We are finalizing the prices at the moment
but I expect within the next few weeks, we will have the parts listed on our website.

We will contact you when we have the information and you can also check
our usa website Store Temporarily Closed for Maintenance soon.

The turbo we have used on the package is a uniquely configured Garrett GTX2863.
The Ni-resist turbo mount includes the information on how to open
the exhaust port on the cylinder head to match the elbow. This is critical
so as not to break through the coolant passages.

Thanks again and feel free to contact me with any questions.

KA


Ken Anderson
President
Mountune, LLC.
(USA)"

and posted this picture on focusst.org:

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Chamber I feel like I've read this before, I'm not finding any threads on the topic. I'm pretty sure people have said the ECU compensates for the better brakes. I've asked Todd at TCE if he knows anything about it. I'll let you know what information I can find. I have no idea and I doubt they'll tell me. If you go to Mountune's facebook and find a post marked August 12, they list the components of their MR350 kit. Ken Anderson did confirm existence of the parts. He sent me this email: "[Chamber] , Thanks for your interest in the MR350 components. We will be offering all of the items separately and they will be in stock in our USA facility as soon as possible. We are finalizing the prices at the moment but I expect within the next few weeks, we will have the parts listed on our website. We will contact you when we have the information and you can also check our usa website Store Temporarily Closed for Maintenance soon. The turbo we have used on the package is a uniquely configured Garrett GTX2863. The Ni-resist turbo mount includes the information on how to open the exhaust port on the cylinder head to match the elbow. This is critical so as not to break through the coolant passages. Thanks again and feel free to contact me with any questions. KA Ken Anderson President Mountune, LLC. (USA)" and posted this picture on focusst.org:

I am also surprised to see they recommend an engine build on a street car at 350hp. They mostly rate things in bhp in Europe (crank hp). The size of that turbo falls in line with 350 crank hp.

[Chamber]

PM from Todd:
"I don't know of any kit that would not work the same. Electronic systems don't know brand, they read wheel speed and other inputs and balance pressure based on their program. Who's caliper producing the torque or the rotors diameter won't effect what's being interpreted- its the result the brake is producing that's being monitored."

Not the definitive answer I was looking for, but it makes sense and I figured as much.

[Chamber]

@Lex;

Heard back from Braden @ Cobb concerning the TVC and bigger brakes:

"I believe Todd @ TCE answered this best in another post but the system is going to work just the same as it is measuring off wheel speed and torque request/actual calculations from the engine. It should work fine, if anything more effectively.

Cheers,
-Braden"

So I guess that's as good as it gets.

Got the Intake runner plate and symposer delete in today. I'll try and take pictures today. Still waiting on word back from Ollie. He's been scarce on the forums this week, so I can only assume he's been busy building the adapter and making sure everything fits.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Chamber @Lex; Heard back from Braden @ Cobb concerning the TVC and bigger brakes: "I believe Todd @ TCE answered this best in another post but the system is going to work just the same as it is measuring off wheel speed and torque request/actual calculations from the engine. It should work fine, if anything more effectively. Cheers, -Braden" So I guess that's as good as it gets. Got the Intake runner plate and symposer delete in today. I'll try and take pictures today. Still waiting on word back from Ollie. He's been scarce on the forums this week, so I can only assume he's been busy building the adapter and making sure everything fits.

It *should* work fine but having experience with control systems, if enough variables are changed it can upset the system as it has been calibrated for a particular brake response. In this case I would look for feedback from someone with some driving experience using these parts.

[Chamber]

Ordered the Mountune FMIC today. Should be in Friday. Hopefully also picking up a Milltek exhaust from the guys at @EdgeAutosport.com; during their meet on Friday.

@Lex;
I talked to FocusRush from focusst.org. His car was used for Wilwood's R&D and has had both the front and rear kits on longer then anyone else:

"The brakes have held up great. As for day to day driving, there is no change at all, they feel like the OEM brakes. My biggest concern was overly touchy brakes, but that is not the case. The stopping power has for sure been increased. I didn't realize how much until I had to panic brake on the free way when a car in the lane to the right of me blew a tire and swerved towards my car. I slammed on the brakes, the car stopped much much faster than I was expecting[.....] By far, the two biggest improvements have been the almost complete lack of brake dust, and the ability way outlast any ST as far as brake fade. After a few trips to the track and more than a dozen mountain runs with other ST's, it became apparent that these brakes are superior. While everyone else would need time to let their brakes cool, mine were just fine.

The TVC has interacted with the new brakes just as I thought they would, just not by much to the point where it's barely noticeable. in sharp hairpin turns (at a too high of a speed than I should be going) the traction control kicks in and is more noticeable. The activation on the inside brakes is more pronounced[...] Even without the overall performance increases, I love them for the added safety they provide. If anything, it makes the TVC better."

Most of the people I've talked to say the same thing.

Finally got a hold of Ollie. The car he is going to use to fab up the adapter is currently at the dealership for a TSB. He's also been busy cleaning and installing a new lift. So hopefully sometime this week.

[EricM]

I'm interested to hear how the milltek will sound. What made you spend the extra dough on a mountune FMIC? I paid $500 for an ATP IC that was barely used. I couldn't see spending double that for the same thing.

[Chamber]

Alan and JP have a video of the Milltek exhaust with a catless downpipe. It sounds amazing. It's quiet as shit during idle and cruise, but loud as fuck when you get on it.

The name, the quality, the history, the prestige. Mountune has been in the Focus ST/RS game for years and know their shit. I've always wanted their parts on my car. I also have the means to afford the parts I want instead of settling for something else just because it's cheaper. Not knocking the quality of other parts, just saying.

[breakfasteatre]

awesome thread

[EdgeAutosport.com]

We have wilwoods for the ST in stock @Chamber; Which size/color did you want?

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by EdgeAutosport.com We have wilwoods for the ST in stock @Chamber; Which size/color did you want?

Wanna go with the 13 with the black 6 pistons. Can you get the rear kit too? I was going to go with Todd so I can do the Paypal 6-month financing. This build is hurting my wallet, so to buy them outright will prevent me from getting them for a few months.

[BigRedSpecial]

Nice to see some join @kmac; in pushing a new platform.

Out of curiosity, has the fueling limit of the platform been found for sure yet?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Chamber Wanna go with the 13 with the black 6 pistons. Can you get the rear kit too? I was going to go with Todd so I can do the Paypal 6-month financing. This build is hurting my wallet, so to buy them outright will prevent me from getting them for a few months.

We can go through paypal financing too if you want, no problem! We have the 13" black bbk for the focus and the black rear caliper kit on order (out of stock at wilwood right now).

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by EdgeAutosport.com We can go through paypal financing too if you want, no problem! We have the 13" black bbk for the focus and the black rear caliper kit on order (out of stock at wilwood right now).

Goddamnit..... uh.... shit.... Let's get this turbo on first and go from there. You guys have a Milltek with black tips in stock?

Edit: Might possibly get the front kit when we throw on the turbo. We'll see. Definitely want both front and rears eventually tho.

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Nice to see some join @kmac; in pushing a new platform. Out of curiosity, has the fueling limit of the platform been found for sure yet?

Not to my knowledge. Once I get a clutch/flywheel, I plan on finding out what the stock HPFP tops out at. I do know there are several people working on the fueling issue: Mountune has uprated injectors, TR3 has injectors/hpfp they're going to test (no idea where they got either from, could be Mountune parts), I know a certain company is working on an upgraded hpfp (bad rep in the speed world, so I'm not naming them, but you can guess who), pretty sure ATP has something in the works to go along with their GTX3071R kit.

[Chamber]

Also don't think I've mentioned this, but @Lex; has agreed to take on the task of tuning this thing when the time comes. I got him a copy of the shop manual. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by Chamber Not to my knowledge. Once I get a clutch/flywheel, I plan on finding out what the stock HPFP tops out at. I do know there are several people working on the fueling issue: Mountune has uprated injectors, TR3 has injectors/hpfp they're going to test (no idea where they got either from, could be Mountune parts), I know a certain company is working on an upgraded hpfp (bad rep in the speed world, so I'm not naming them, but you can guess who), pretty sure ATP has something in the works to go along with their GTX3071R kit.

Injectors already? Jesus Christ! I hate the ST now hahaha. I'm assuming the HPFP can outflow the stock injectors and the issue is pressure like us?

Originally Posted by Chamber Also don't think I've mentioned this, but @Lex; has agreed to take on the task of tuning this thing when the time comes. I got him a copy of the shop manual. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.

You'll be in good hands! I'd love a copy of the manual; never know when it could come in handy.

[Chamber]

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Injectors already? Jesus Christ! I hate the ST now hahaha. I'm assuming the HPFP can outflow the stock injectors and the issue is pressure like us?

Actually, I believe it's the opposite. I know with the guys at Cobb tuning Kmac's car they got to 2850 psi tapering down to around 2100 psi at redline. I have no basis for this, but I think the Mountune injectors might just be the injectors from the 2.3 ecoboost since Mountune and Ford have a close working relationship. Again, no basis for that, but I find it hard to believe platforms such as the speeds and N54/N55 don't have aftermarket injector options and a 1 year old platform does. I also haven't come across any specs on the 2.3 so I don't even know if it comes with different injectors. Most I've heard is bored out, forged internals, and bigger turbo (k04?) but all of that is still just rumor.

I'll send you PM with the shop manual info.

[ARES28]

So it looks like the next time i come across you its going to be a different story. I bess start saving for at least a bnr. haha Nice build and the ride is looking good.