SWAS issues

[phate]

It happens, almost without fail, in big left handed turns where I'm straightening out and going full throttle. The 'Disable Torque Limiter' toggle is checked. I've attached logs, but here's a couple screenshots of the issue.





I've attached my tune file and 3 logs. The particular ranges I'm looking at in each of the logs:

1_31_57: 142-144s
1_38_58: 712-715
1_55_31: 732-754


@Steve@VersaTune;
@Ugnius@VersaTune;

I don't see anything in the tune that would cause it, so I'm curious what you guys think. Thanks for all your help!

[Polish_Eagle]

I've experienced this too, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before as well. Since the SWAS disable doesn't 100% work I still use the SWAS disable switch unfortunately.

Here's the link and also, when I was testing I had semi slick track tires which didn't slip: 2011 SWAS Issue

Oh, I also think you need to push the "DSC Off" button in the car so DSC isn't interfering. Try pushing that button and then taking logs to see if that helps. I know for me it didn't as I had my AFR's dip into the 9's and you can feel SWAS affecting things.

[phate]

DSC is most definitely always off, so not a worry about that. The SWAS sensor in ms6's controls part of the awd system. Unhooking it disables awd, so that's out of the question.

[Steve@VersaTune]

The ECU is definitely pissed off. It fuel cut at 142.626s in 1_31_57. RPMs are up and down. Were you spinning an inside wheel?

edit: same thing in 1_38_58. Sharp rpm rise then fuel cut.

Could also be a lateral G force limit induced torque reduction by the DSC module that the button doesn't mask.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune The ECU is definitely pissed off. It fuel cut at 142.626s in 1_31_57. RPMs are up and down. Were you spinning an inside wheel? edit: same thing in 1_38_58. Sharp rpm rise then fuel cut. Could also be a lateral G force limit induced torque reduction by the DSC module that the button doesn't mask.

We may have occasionally spun an inside tire, but not every time. Sometimes I'll just wait until the wheel is nearly straight to apply more throttle, and it will still cut with throttle application.

We pull over 1g lateral, and it only happens after sustained cornering, not after quick maneuvers. All of my videos from Saturday were corrupt, so I don't have a good example (you can hear the car pop and stutter when it happens). If it is g-force induced, is there any hope of it getting tuned out?

[Steve@VersaTune]

I'm looking at it. I have an idea that I need to do some testing with.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune I'm looking at it. I have an idea that I need to do some testing with.

Awesome, thanks. We autocross every 2 weeks or so during the season, so if you need testing done I can help with whatever you need.

[xfeejayx]

Leave it to phate to find a lateral G force limit.

In for testing if you need/want/would like a second car.

[phate]

[phate]

We're autocrossing on Sunday, again. Steve, if you would like us to try anything or capture anything specific in the data, let us know and we'll do it! I'll have my accelerometer logging this time around, so that data should be available, too.

[Steve@VersaTune]

Working on a new build for you with some new tables.

[Steve@VersaTune]

Sent you a link to a new VT to test. Check your spam folder if you don't see it.

[Steve@VersaTune]

Any improvement?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune Any improvement?

No, still cutting after long left handers. I'll send (or post) data logs and the tune file for you guys to check out. Long day yesterday, still went fast enough to take the class

[phate]

Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune Any improvement?

I've attached all of the logs from Sunday. Here's the summary (included in the .rar):



Essentially, I took anything and everything that might be causing an issue out of the tune. Tune file included, please let me know if I missed any tables that you were thinking of.

You can see and hear in this video around 32s where it happens after the big left hander:

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

[Enki]

Christ almighty.

[KCi]

Off topic: The video log looks cool. What software / hardware is this?

[phate]

Originally Posted by KCi Off topic: The video log looks cool. What software / hardware is this?

Race Render 3 is the video software. It can handle time based data, so data logs are perfect to overlay. In my case, I have a GoPro taking video, VT logs exported to CSV format, and a GCDC 3-axis 2g accelerometer for the G-G plot (smoothed from 128Hz sample rate in this case).

[phate]

@mazdakaps you might need to download it again

[mazdakaps]

Lol how did this happen? I only download it once. Oh well!!!

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by mazdakaps Lol how did this happen? I only download it once. Oh well!!!

If the downloader uses multi-threading to increase downloads, it'll appears as a another download for each connection.

sent from my Nexus 6P

[xfeejayx]

@Steve@VersaTune;
Weather depending, racing this weekend. Anything specific you want to see? Will attempt phate type log, but...slower.

[Steve@VersaTune]

Nothing right now. I am still looking. Thanks for the offer.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[phate]

@xfeejayx, have you gotten any cuts in either of the 6's?

@Steve@VersaTune, I'll be autocrossing again this coming Sunday, do you want me to test any tables or grab different fields in the data logs?

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by phate @xfeejayx, have you gotten any cuts in either of the 6's? @Steve@VersaTune, I'll be autocrossing again this coming Sunday, do you want me to test any tables or grab different fields in the data logs?

Hadn't been looking. Was going to look specifically for it this past weekend, but got rained out.

Have an ax Saturday, and potentially one Sunday.

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[Steve@VersaTune]

Originally Posted by phate @Steve@VersaTune, I'll be autocrossing again this coming Sunday, do you want me to test any tables or grab different fields in the data logs?

A beta is in the works. Should have something to you shortly.

[phate]

May have found the culprit and might owe the VT guys some beers for creating extra work. I popped a P2088 code a few weeks ago, but cleared it because it was pretty random. It came back after the car was cutting especially hard this weekend, so thought I better check it out...







I'll repin tonight and see how it goes.

[xfeejayx]

Just checked our logs from the weekend. No RTP reduction below 6k; slaloms, sweepers, whatever. I imagine this will address your issue.

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[phate]

I reworked that connector and the car is pulling cleanly now in straight lines. Dragon this weekend, then another autocross the weekend after. I'm going to revert back to the current public release of VT and my old tune to test things out. Hopefully everything is fixed!

[phate]

I won't call yesterday's event conclusive, because there weren't any long left handers. But, the car pulled cleanly every time we asked for it

Next event in 2 weeks.

[MSP6]

Shouldn't you be Skyping with Fiat right now??

[c_bye]

I get this cut-off on sweeping turns on power as well.

I haven't done this, but I've heard you have to completely disable the SWAS sensor which is under the steering column but you need to remove all the shrouding to get to it.

What I've done is on startup hold the DSC button and that will disable both DSC and Traction Control. I've gotten good results this way, but you have to be careful of lift-off oversteer!

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by c_bye I get this cut-off on sweeping turns on power as well. I haven't done this, but I've heard you have to completely disable the SWAS sensor which is under the steering column but you need to remove all the shrouding to get to it. What I've done is on startup hold the DSC button and that will disable both DSC and Traction Control. I've gotten good results this way, but you have to be careful of lift-off oversteer!

You're likely just getting traction/stability control action mid corner when DSC is on. Most people probably don't even know what SWAS cut feels like. It's like turbo lag more than cut.

Don't have to hold button on MS6, just tap it. It does NOT disable SWAS cut.

Disabling that sensor does more than just disable SWAS, I think.

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[phate]

Originally Posted by MSP6 Shouldn't you be Skyping with Fiat right now??

Done!

Originally Posted by c_bye I get this cut-off on sweeping turns on power as well. I haven't done this, but I've heard you have to completely disable the SWAS sensor which is under the steering column but you need to remove all the shrouding to get to it. What I've done is on startup hold the DSC button and that will disable both DSC and Traction Control. I've gotten good results this way, but you have to be careful of lift-off oversteer!

Check here. MS6 is a little different.

[c_bye]

Originally Posted by phate Done! Check here. MS6 is a little different.

Ah I see, disregard what I said before then. I can only speak for the MS3.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by c_bye Ah I see, disregard what I said before then. I can only speak for the MS3.

From what I remember, holding the button only turns on the lights for testing and doesn't actually fully disable anything. I've had my light come on simply because I hit the button too fast after starting it, no holding needed. Car didn't behave any differently either.

[c_bye]

Originally Posted by Enki From what I remember, holding the button only turns on the lights for testing and doesn't actually fully disable anything. I've had my light come on simply because I hit the button too fast after starting it, no holding needed. Car didn't behave any differently either.

Right, like I said you have to physically unplug it under the dash for it to actually disable.

It was probably just me, but I did notice the back end stepping out a bit more on track than with both DSC off and traction control light on.

[Polish_Eagle]

My 2011 MS3 suffers from powerless mid corner (rich AFR's and little power), once I straighten the wheel out I feel full power. I then disable my SWAS with the switch I wired in and the powerloss no longer happens.

[phate]

No dice on the connector being the culprit. I flashed back to the pre-beta tune and autocrossed yesterday with a HUGE nascar style left handed oval. After straightening out into the next section, the car cut out just like it used to.

I'll work back through to see if I can find a fix. I'll start with the tables that became available in 1.10.11, then move to the tables available in 1.10.13.


Video of the course. Too much wind noise to hear the cut, this time.

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by phate No dice on the connector being the culprit. I flashed back to the pre-beta tune and autocrossed yesterday with a HUGE nascar style left handed oval. After straightening out into the next section, the car cut out just like it used to. I'll work back through to see if I can find a fix. I'll start with the tables that became available in 1.10.11, then move to the tables available in 1.10.13. Video of the course. Too much wind noise to hear the cut, this time. http://youtu.be/MuFV8qb6Ohk

I briefly looked at the logs from our last ax, didn't see any cut after the left sweeper. Will go through them in more detail.

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