No new Mazdaspeed3 until 2018

[Ferdball]

Per Car and Driver, no new MS3 until MY2018. They estimate that it will be about $30,000, which is much more than the $22,000 starting price in 2007. Used MS3's are a little hard to find, and maybe now they will be even more rare.




Speculation from Down Under (Thanks Trey and Mach69)

[hatchedspeed3]

that blows...

[Koke382]

Gives me time to pay my cars off and buy this one lol

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[hatchedspeed3]

Originally Posted by Koke382 Gives me time to pay my cars off and buy this one lol Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

lol very good point

[1nstinct]

^ yeah I can finish paying this one off than get a new one haha.
If they can make a awd speed3 that gets good mpg, it would be a gold mine IMHO. But my guess is it's not going to happen.

[hatchedspeed3]

for $30000 it better have awd. WRX doesn't even cost that.

[kilo101]

No way is it going to be 30k. I call bs, plus most of its just hear say

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by kilo101 No way is it going to be 30k. I call bs, plus most of its just hear say

Go price an Mz3. Prices have gone up.

[h0ckeyman]

Couple things....the high price tag will hopefully mean they are planning for AWD. Also, a LOT can happen and change between now and 2018. Don't be shocked if the MS3 never makes a comeback.

[Koke382]

Hopes and dreams......hopes and dreams...

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[kilo101]

Originally Posted by Ferdball Go price an Mz3. Prices have gone up.

Not that much, 2014 are going for 18000 around here. I'm guessing it will go for just under 25000 new if and when it comes out.

[2011speed]

Makes me appreciate my 13 more

[Big Dog]

It may never make a comeback. People seem to want gas mileage first and most other things second. The performance line up is shrinking amongst many vehicle manufacturers. I like my GenPu but love my MS6 more. I dream the day the new Mazda6 gets a MazdaSpeed version.

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by kilo101 Not that much, 2014 are going for 18000 around here. I'm guessing it will go for just under 25000 new if and when it comes out.

Looking at stock in the Escondido dealer, the Sport starts at $19k, and the Grand Touring goes for $27.6k! image-89325519.jpg

[dale_gribble]

Like I said in another thread from a conversation I had with a Mazda insider, Mazda is likely going to Turbo the 2.5L Skyactiv for the new CX-9 due in 2016. It's logical. Mazda is 100% coming out with a CX-9 (confirmed) and nothing in their lineup can sufficiently power a 4400# crossover. Maybe they have a diesel option, but they will definitely have a gas option and I don't see how it won't be turbo'd. Mazda has repeatedly said there will not be a V6 skyactiv motor.

This engine would give hope for a new MS3. I don't ever see MS6 returning; my Speed6 will be long gone before there is even a new MS6 concept and I will probably be driving a new AWD 2.3L Ecoboost Fusion ST (fingers crossed). Mazda just doesn't have a ton of bandwidth. New MX-5, Mazda 2 and CX-9 will keep them busy for the next few years.

[magicka]

It's not great news, but it's hardly surprising. Speed versions have typically been part of the mid-cycle refresh or later. Regarding price, the '13 MS3 lists for less than a '14 MZ3 s. I'd call it a win if Mazda can keep the base price of a new MS3 around $28-29k.

[JgamB]

By the time a 2018 MS3 is 30k, a Focus ST will be 34K. Doesn't much matter.

[SpankyCuervo]

I'm holding my breath for turbo diesel MS6. AWD, endless torque, and hatchback FTW.

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by SpankyCuervo I'm holding my breath for turbo diesel MS6. AWD, endless torque, and hatchback FTW.

In the same mag, they did a spread on the exhaust on an Audi A6 TDI. There is a lot of exhaust systems in there trying to make it clean. There is no way you can swap out the downpipe without some sort of bad juju going on.

But yeah, I would like a turbo diesel, as long as we can get a good tune with reasonable mods.

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Like I said in another thread from a conversation I had with a Mazda insider, Mazda is likely going to Turbo the 2.5L Skyactiv for the new CX-9 due in 2016. It's logical. Mazda is 100% coming out with a CX-9 (confirmed) and nothing in their lineup can sufficiently power a 4400# crossover. Maybe they have a diesel option, but they will definitely have a gas option and I don't see how it won't be turbo'd. Mazda has repeatedly said there will not be a V6 skyactiv motor. This engine would give hope for a new MS3. I don't ever see MS6 returning; my Speed6 will be long gone before there is even a new MS6 concept and I will probably be driving a new AWD 2.3L Ecoboost Fusion ST (fingers crossed). Mazda just doesn't have a ton of bandwidth. New MX-5, Mazda 2 and CX-9 will keep them busy for the next few years.

Is their standard V6 going away?

[kolosok17]

2013 MSRP is $24000 for the base model. With 3% inflation, that's $27.8k-ish in 2018 money. Hopefully they can keep it at that price or lower.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Ferdball In the same mag, they did a spread on the exhaust on an Audi A6 TDI. There is a lot of exhaust systems in there trying to make it clean. There is no way you can swap out the downpipe without some sort of bad juju going on. But yeah, I would like a turbo diesel, as long as we can get a good tune with reasonable mods. Is their standard V6 going away?

That's probably because of the exhaust treatment, they use urea. If you remove it/cats, it's not really any different than removing cats like a lot of people do to these cars. It will obviously throw codes, just like removing cats and you will produce more emissions. Although, with the VW system, if the urea level goes too low, it will not allow you to start the car at all. That would be the biggest issue. I believe there was an article that Mazda wanted to produce their diesels without having to use an exhaust treatment. Not all VWs/Audis use it either. The golf/jetta TDIs do not use an exhaust treatment, but the Passats and Touaregs do.

[jhg1232]

the 2.5l is around 25k IF theres a speed it will most likely be more than that with awd maybe

[Enki]

I want the compound turbo diesel in the Skyactiv-D way, way more than I want a new Mazdaspeed anything, even if it is slower.

[Atomic41]

Ah rumor !!!

I can wait to see this car on the road if that happen.

AWD - Turbo - ZOOM ZOOM. I will keep my Speed3 2008 long time so ...

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Big Dog It may never make a comeback. People seem to want gas mileage first and most other things second. The performance line up is shrinking amongst many vehicle manufacturers. I like my GenPu but love my MS6 more. I dream the day the new Mazda6 gets a MazdaSpeed version.

Mazda won't wait until 2018... They are in a war with VW over hot hatches... Rumors are just that... Mazda has always been unpredictable when it comes to models dropping, when they drop and what's powering them.

By 2018 they would be at the tailend of the gen 3 anyhow

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by sidekick That's probably because of the exhaust treatment, they use urea. If you remove it/cats, it's not really any different than removing cats like a lot of people do to these cars. It will obviously throw codes, just like removing cats and you will produce more emissions. Although, with the VW system, if the urea level goes too low, it will not allow you to start the car at all. That would be the biggest issue. I believe there was an article that Mazda wanted to produce their diesels without having to use an exhaust treatment. Not all VWs/Audis use it either. The golf/jetta TDIs do not use an exhaust treatment, but the Passats and Touaregs do.

In the C&D article, it says that the Audi system uses urea. But when that's done, it goes into a "regenerative" mode and should last the life of the car. Does that sound right, or did I read it wrong.

Count me in for a turbo diesel that can be modded and tuned for the same power that we have now, along with better mileage, and the ability to use biodeisel or heating fuel for when the apocalypse comes about.

[Design]

I'm right down the street from their Irvine HQ. Rumor is that they are working on a turbo SkyActive variant that will be used across multiple platforms including the CX-9. No info on release date. But I'd be surprised if we didn't see something out within the next two years.

[Domino81]

I'd say early model year 2016 in 2015 or so. We'll have to wait and see. Looks neat though. I like it.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Ferdball In the C&D article, it says that the Audi system uses urea. But when that's done, it goes into a "regenerative" mode and should last the life of the car. Does that sound right, or did I read it wrong. Count me in for a turbo diesel that can be modded and tuned for the same power that we have now, along with better mileage, and the ability to use biodeisel or heating fuel for when the apocalypse comes about.

Not really sure on specifics of the Audi system or if they've started using something newer, but even the 2014 model year passats are using urea exhaust treatment. We have to refill the tank every 10K miles at each service, or in between if the customer goes through more than that. I'm not sure how they would go about making it last the life of the car. Maybe the system itself, but not the urea.

From wikipedia:

Diesel exhaust fluid (from a separate DEF tank) is injected into the exhaust pipeline, the aqueous urea vaporizes and decomposes to form ammonia and carbon dioxide. Within the SCR catalyst, the NOx are catalytically reduced by the ammonia (NH3) into water (H2O) and nitrogen (N2), which are both harmless; and these are then released through the exhaust.[3]

[Domino81]

I'd be more interested if it was a hybrid like the McLaren P1 but not really a turbo diesel.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by sidekick Not really sure on specifics of the Audi system or if they've started using something newer, but even the 2014 model year passats are using urea exhaust treatment. We have to refill the tank every 10K miles at each service, or in between if the customer goes through more than that. I'm not sure how they would go about making it last the life of the car. Maybe the system itself, but not the urea. From wikipedia:

BMW uses the UREA as well.

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by sidekick Not really sure on specifics of the Audi system or if they've started using something newer, but even the 2014 model year passats are using urea exhaust treatment. We have to refill the tank every 10K miles at each service, or in between if the customer goes through more than that. I'm not sure how they would go about making it last the life of the car. Maybe the system itself, but not the urea. From wikipedia:

Yup, I read that wrong. It is the filter that is good for 300-800 miles, then turns to regenerative mode. I've got a screenshot...

[dubtastic]

Originally Posted by Design I'm right down the street from their Irvine HQ. Rumor is that they are working on a turbo SkyActive variant that will be used across multiple platforms including the CX-9. No info on release date. But I'd be surprised if we didn't see something out within the next two years.

Agreed.

However a 30K speed3 would be a real buzz kill even with AWD. Keeping it FWD and affordable would be the smart move.

I get the impression that Mazda will mimic Ford in platform and performance. With the rumor of a new Mazda2 and Mazdaspeed2 it will directly compete with the Fiesta and Fiesta ST. A speed2 would also segue the price point of a more costly speed3.

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by dubtastic Agreed. However a 30K speed3 would be a real buzz kill even with AWD. Keeping it FWD and affordable would be the smart move. I get the impression that Mazda will mimic Ford in platform and performance. With the rumor of a new Mazda2 and Mazdaspeed2 it will directly compete with the Fiesta and Fiesta ST. A speed2 would also segue the price point of a more costly speed3.

I think your insane, nothing about a 30k AWD speed3 would be a buzz kill. What it would be is a performance bargain, stepping up where the Evo and STI have failed. Those cars used to offer shockingly good performance for 30k and imo have lost their soul as their budget and weight ballooned. Mazda could capitalize on this, especially with the Evo dying off and the new Subaru looking like a Hyundai rental car with a hood scoop and spoiler. I know a lot of us would trade our speeds tomorrow for such a vehicle.

[Koke382]

Shit i know i would, 30k isnt as and as 40k for the same shit

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[CaptObvious75]

I'm in no rush to pay mine off then.


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[2zooms]

Originally Posted by Big Dog It may never make a comeback. People seem to want gas mileage first and most other things second. The performance line up is shrinking amongst many vehicle manufacturers. I like my GenPu but love my MS6 more. I dream the day the new Mazda6 gets a MazdaSpeed version.

Fools! I bought a 2012 a few months ago, well worth the decrease in gas mileage. If I drive reasonably I can get ~26mgp driving to and from work. That's not bad at all IMO.

[dubtastic]

Originally Posted by InkedInspector I think your insane, nothing about a 30k AWD speed3 would be a buzz kill. What it would be is a performance bargain, stepping up where the Evo and STI have failed. Those cars used to offer shockingly good performance for 30k and imo have lost their soul as their budget and weight ballooned. Mazda could capitalize on this, especially with the Evo dying off and the new Subaru looking like a Hyundai rental car with a hood scoop and spoiler. I know a lot of us would trade our speeds tomorrow for such a vehicle.

Not saying you may not have the scratch to drop 30K on a hot hatch, but most in a Speed3 don't. Adding AWD would greatly increase the price and start to edge it out of the current demographic the Speed3 was built for. I think that is where the Mazdaspeed2 might come into play as a lower priced performance option.

Keep in mind AWD doesn't always make you a better driver.

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by dubtastic Not saying you may not have the scratch to drop 30K on a hot hatch, but most in a Speed3 don't. Adding AWD would greatly increase the price and start to edge it out of the current demographic the Speed3 was built for. I think that is where the Mazdaspeed2 might come into play as a lower priced performance option. Keep in mind AWD doesn't always make you a better driver.

The new 3 shares it's underpinnings with a cx5, which is available in awd. It would not require extensive price increase to make a hypothetical speed 3 awd as it would have with our speeds which were designed for fwd. Assuming it takes a few years to develop and accounting for inflation, dropping 30k wouldn't be much more than dropping 26k for a tech package 2013 new. By your own words they are competing with the focus st which can run well over 30k right now. I don't think Mazda has the cash for two niche market vehicles such as a speed2 and 3. I think we will see one speed variant 3 or 6. If ford can sell a fwd st for over 30k and Mazda could deliver an awd platform for less money it would sell wheither you have the cash for that or not, plenty of people would pony up.

[Design]

Not going to happen. Mazda learned with the MS6 that there's a limited market for AWD against two key players with extensive rally experience. There's a much bigger demand for cheap, fast and efficient.

Mazda will get around the cost issue by making a single high output powerplant for multiple platforms. Probably including the 6 and CX-9. That's exactly how Ford did it with EcoBoot.