PT 5857 + AWD

[Koya]

Also this one part (can't find english name) will be made forged, in addition to pistons-rods

[Jarods7920]

Ok...how with the rear mount break?

You also say better bushing? Where at?

There is a second mount for the rear differential it just not pictured. I could nto use the stock mount so i had to design a second mount for the passenger side. It attaches above the rear differential.

Rear stabilizer....i assume you mean the rear sway bar? It is also attached just pictured.

Cx7 brakes? What is wrong with this situation.

Until i can attain the proper parts from japan to adapt the 3 brakes as well as make the ABS system work. This was the only viable solution at the time.

I am open to criticism so by all means fire back.

You said rear breaks on custom plates? What are you doing about rear hubs? Are you having custom ones made? Are you planning on keeping the rear abs system in tact and how will you be addressing the problem?

Also, the part you are refereeing too is known as a sleeve. I am not sure that you need to have it messed with. The block is already a closed deck and thus far seems to hold more than 1000 with stock sleeves.

Jarod

[Koya]

Something happened to photos I posted... can't see them now...

You need to use stock plate for rear mount from speed6 to bolt it with your mount. Its small one have 3 holes in it. Yours have just bolt going thru it. Its wrong, will breake for sure, one of next - bolt, mount, transmission case. Rear mount have verry big loads when you push accelerator, not sure in numbers, measured it long ago so will try to find my records.

If you did additional mount it can be ok I just don't saw it on your photos.

I used custom plate and CX7 hubs. So it fit like glove.
Will try to fix photos tommorow when will be at work, all photos is there.

ABS system will be difficult to make run, because at speed3 and CX7 they are different. CX7 uses magnet type ones. And speed3 magnetless. At this problem have one person working, progress is promising.

Stock sleeves (thanks for translation) cannot safely hold more than 600hp for a long period. If to make it right they need to be replaced.

[Jarods7920]

Well i mean there is a guy here who runs one that is into the 7s and is a full drag car on stock sleeves.

I will look into the mount, its does take much to redo that so i will have to take a look at it. It may just be that it delivers the load in a more distributed manor than all in one place.

If you look at the last fist picture on my blog, you can see the bottom portion of the mount for the rear diff.

I still fail to see your argument for the cx7 brakes. Essentially we are accomplishing the same thing. You made a plate and i modified the cx7 stuff to fit. Either way both accomplish the same thing.

As far as the rear ABS, there are parts available in japan to make it all work, but i have not been able to get ahold of the parts or part numbers just drawings of them. I am working with mazdapseed motor sports here in the US to get the parts here so that i may retain all the speed 3 stuff( brakes, cables, trailer arms, abs etc)

[Koya]

About CX7 brakes...
1 - lack of disks-pads if make it for more agresive use.
2 - e-brake it have is a faily thing. I know it, was mazda dealer for a long time.

I prefer to leave such systems as brakes-steering-electrics as they need to be at specific car, and go less different car parts in builds.
Anyway I gonna re-do plates to add another brake for hydraulic handbrake.

This project for me more like a hobby.

Drag is 7 seconds of acceleration, and circuit is few hours. So its different builds.

Still, I need Billstein # of shocks you used. Anyway gonna go coilover setup, but need something to be there right now.

I will make you photo on rear mount, how to fix it.

I suspect that AWD 3 in Japan uses magnet type ABS.

[djuosnteisn]

koya, how many speed blocks have you seen at more than 600hp for extended periods of time? What do they tune with? Any links to more information on them?

[airhunt2]

Interesting....

[Koya]

blocks - 3 blown and 1 alive. This summer one more 600+ come out of workshop, as I know with forged sleeves.
I follow information about one, forged sleeves, ported head 450+ whp. It used as track and daily at same time for almost a year as I remember. Still running. Soon they plan go more boost and raise power, will see what will come out.
In Ukraine there are company that managed to get in ECU of speeds, I work with them... and they can tune it any way needed, all parameters are possible to change. Tune is done for each car individual, so result may vary but very high quality done.

[mason]

what are they doing for fueling?

[Koya]

Originally Posted by mason what are they doing for fueling?

re-built HPFP
Additional injectors in re-built intake manifold. For peak power their own meth injection system with 10L tank.

[bmylez]

Oh, so they're running port injectors along with the direct injectors? Sounds like that would be interesting to tune. Really cool, though.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by -cj- I don't think it's a MS6 drive train, I think he's doing it on the cheap/better(?) with Focus or Volvo parts... but don't quote me on that. I believe I remember reading it a while back... OP don't leave us hanging...

cheap but better....

right....

nothing wrong with the mazda AWD first off and 2nd... volvo, mazda and ford all use a very similar AWD system....

so whats better?

[Jarods7920]

How do you plan on compensating for the car running a target based afr system? Because even if you run additional injectors; wont te ecu just scale back te factory injectors to achieve the target afr?

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 How do you plan on compensating for the car running a target based afr system? Because even if you run additional injectors; wont te ecu just scale back te factory injectors to achieve the target afr?

no need for PI on this car....

if anyone goes that way they don't know what they're doing...

[bmylez]

Well, according to Koya, they seem to have cracked the ECU entirely and their PI setup is working...

[Koya]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 How do you plan on compensating for the car running a target based afr system? Because even if you run additional injectors; wont te ecu just scale back te factory injectors to achieve the target afr?

Its not standback. Its writed in stock ECU so there will be no scale back. First thing done here is turn off secon O2 sensor and remove it with cats. When you work with stock ECU and have all controll, you can do anything... in example turn off airbag system so there will be no light when you tear them off, and set rollcage with 5 point belts.

Originally Posted by bmylez Well, according to Koya, they seem to have cracked the ECU entirely and their PI setup is working...

Right It called reverse engineering as I know. Still a lot of work need to be done to make it all become more simple and work like from factory, but it much more simple that you don't need to plug anything in addition to stock ECU.

[Jarods7920]

Originally Posted by Koya Its not standback. Its writed in stock ECU so there will be no scale back. First thing done here is turn off secon O2 sensor and remove it with cats. When you work with stock ECU and have all controll, you can do anything... in example turn off airbag system so there will be no light when you tear them off, and set rollcage with 5 point belts. Right It called reverse engineering as I know. Still a lot of work need to be done to make it all become more simple and work like from factory, but it much more simple that you don't need to plug anything in addition to stock ECU.

I understand whats written to the ECU. The secondary 02 DOES NOT control the afr. Its the primary wideband which is what does it. So, if you just turn it off the ecu has no way of determining afr. So unless you are totally rewriting the logic of the ECU, I still fail to see your logic here. Now, it may be due in part to a language barrier, but turning off lights and turning of fuel controls are two entirely different things.

[Jarods7920]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx cheap but better.... right.... nothing wrong with the mazda AWD first off and 2nd... volvo, mazda and ford all use a very similar AWD system.... so whats better?

It had nothing to do with cheap. It was what worked. I didnt want to use a fuel cell, so i used the s40 fuel tank. The awd stuff is some custom and other mazda. But it certainly had nothing to do with being cheap.

I mean i am no fool, but i certainly do not know everything. What i do know is that if this were done "on the cheap" it wouldnt last. I intend to sell this to someone and i refuse to sell someone a clap trap.

[Koya]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 I understand whats written to the ECU. The secondary 02 DOES NOT control the afr. Its the primary wideband which is what does it. So, if you just turn it off the ecu has no way of determining afr. So unless you are totally rewriting the logic of the ECU, I still fail to see your logic here. Now, it may be due in part to a language barrier, but turning off lights and turning of fuel controls are two entirely different things.

Ok, maybe I said it the way you don't understand, will write this way...

There are anything possible to change in stock ECU. Anything, no exeptions.
We disable second O2 in ECU to remove cats, and get no CEL.
I know that first one is used for AFR.
Got a good tech dictionary so will try to explain at better english next time

[Jarods7920]

Well, i mean how do you plan to accomplish the fuel compensation? I am curious...very curious.

[SSinstaller]

IMO, it wouldn't really be all that hard to run port injection in addition to the DI..

If you have full control of the ECM and an outboard controller for the additional injectors, you would need a MAF based fueling logic for the additional injectors--MAF Vout goes up, injection PW increases.

The ECM will see the extra fuel and use the trims to correct for it, then all it takes is a MAF calibration to get the trims under control, and the ecm will be perfectly happy with what your extra injectors are doing...

As long as the additional injectors never inject enough fuel to cause pre-ignition on their own, and you can correct the ECM's load calculation that's based off the corrected MAF calibration..

[djuosnteisn]

^^^ this, or similar to it.

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 How do you plan on compensating for the car running a target based afr system? Because even if you run additional injectors; wont te ecu just scale back te factory injectors to achieve the target afr?

You can target whatever AFR you please within the ecu, especially at wot. So if your running secondary injectors that are providing 20% of the fuel, you simply scale that portion for the maf table back 20%. It's really easy to be honest, and with a little extra effort, you can make much more elaborate and accurate setups work, similar to what SS mentioned but instead of using the maf voltage for injection calculation, you simply use the oem injector pulse width.

[Jarods7920]

Ok i understand. Thats what i was thinking you could do, but wasnt 100% sure on how it works.

[bmylez]

Yeah, it's probably not even necessary to run the port injectors during part throttle. I'm sure they could devise a setup where the injectors are hooked up to either an RPM switch or a WOT switch, or both, like nawouz

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Koya Also this one part (can't find english name) will be made forged, in addition to pistons-rods

What kind of material are your forged cylinder liners going to be made out of?
Why forged?
Never heard of forged liners. If you are looking for a weight reduction you can use aluminum liners with a nikasil or lokasil coating. This is what formula 1 uses and most newer Porsche blocks. Machining a steel or aluminum liner out of billet, if you are really set on changing liners, would seem like a much more sensible approach than drop forging them. I can see absolutely no benefit to using a forged liner. Also the peak firing pressures in our engines are bath tub farts compared to what high BMEP slow speed diesel engines see and they use cast iron, but hey, I am always willing to learn. Ukrainian tech FTW

[Koya]

Will try to help you with material later, as I don't know how to tell at english right now.
Most funny thing, they are made at USA.
There are 2 types of liners. One is stock, and one is thick walled.
To install thik ones - you need to bore a block till coolant lines. So cooling system washes these liners.
Its done not at my workshop, I order work at other one.
Will be making my block soon so can make some photos.

P.S. We have few stock liners cracked here...

[The Great NY]

im loving all this. keep up the good work everyone.

[harryclay]

subbed .. this is really interesting stuff .. keep it up

[Koya]

2 Jarods7920

I need # of Billsteins you used...
Because dealer in Ukraine "Can't help with this part..."

[labikesrcool]

Originally Posted by Tomas What kind of material are your forged cylinder liners going to be made out of? Why forged? Never heard of forged liners. If you are looking for a weight reduction you can use aluminum liners with a nikasil or lokasil coating. This is what formula 1 uses and most newer Porsche blocks. Machining a steel or aluminum liner out of billet, if you are really set on changing liners, would seem like a much more sensible approach than drop forging them. I can see absolutely no benefit to using a forged liner. Also the peak firing pressures in our engines are bath tub farts compared to what high BMEP slow speed diesel engines see and they use cast iron, but hey, I am always willing to learn. Ukrainian tech FTW

forging or casting gives you more a more desirable grain structure. forging also work hardens as you make the part. seems like the stronger and the thinner you can make the liner the better it will cool.

[Jarods7920]

Originally Posted by Koya 2 Jarods7920 I need # of Billsteins you used... Because dealer in Ukraine "Can't help with this part..."

Ok....basically what i did was purchase the Volvo s40 rear shocks then sent them to billstien to be shortened and revalved. It was about 50 bucks when it was all said and done. Pm and we can discuss it rather than clutter the thread.

[802MS3]

he might not be able to PM yet since he is a new guy

[Koya]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 Ok....basically what i did was purchase the Volvo s40 rear shocks then sent them to billstien to be shortened and revalved. It was about 50 bucks when it was all said and done. Pm and we can discuss it rather than clutter the thread.

Why we need to take the fun from other people here Publicity of projects is thing that make that people doing more crazy thing, and show it to others, who ... well, endless talk

Well, if revalved volvo s40, then its not a way to go for me. I wanna use real coilover, with spring over shock, but cannot make construction of main arm that will take it and will be reliable. So as mininal will go with lowering springs and some custom made shock, that have posibility to change damping force.

[Jarods7920]

Well I am using a coil over set up with my shocks, so I don't see the problem with what you are doing. They are shortened and revalved to match the spring.

[Koya]

Its not a problem, I just have my own point of vision on such builds
Can they make custom one from scratch using given parameters ?

[Koya]

For the begining, gonna take speed6 rear ajustable shocks... with custom upper mount they fit just right. Tested it 30 min ago, looks nice
Still need to look more detail on them on suspension travel how bushings on both ends of shocks will go...

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Koya For the begining, gonna take speed6 rear ajustable shocks... with custom upper mount they fit just right. Tested it 30 min ago, looks nice Still need to look more detail on them on suspension travel how bushings on both ends of shocks will go...

So you are making a complete kit to convert a regular MS3 into a 4WD MS3 correct?
What price approximately will the kit be?
Will you ship to the U.S?
Do you have a specification sheet or something similar of all components in the kit?

Sorry for thread jack.
Interest in OP's vehicle when it goes on sale is strong. Few things I would have done differently but overall looks pretty good.

[jwilkins88]

This is interesting information...

On another note, my intake manifold is going to look retarded...

Direct Port meth
Direct Port nitrous
Direct Port injectors

Damn... 12 nozzles?

[bmylez]

You don't mean direct port injectors...you already have those and they're not in the intake manifold. You mean port injectors...

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by bmylez You don't mean direct port injectors...you already have those and they're not in the intake manifold. You mean port injectors...

It's basically the same thing.