Dougefresh's Top Mount Twin Scroll 3076 Build

[djuosnteisn]

Honestly, i'm with Anthony in that i don't think the baffle is really all that necessary, especially with our oil pick up tube location. You'd have to have the car on 2 wheels to get the pick up out of the oil lol. But with that said, it's really not that much more $ for the baffle with the gpwerks kit, so i would say just do it. I'm running the F2 on my motor and have never had any issues..... (well.... any issues from the baffle).

I'd like to get the intakes finished up this week / weekend, and then start the down pipes. I will hopefully see joel this saturday, so i can use his car for mock up on the recirc tube. Shouldn't be too long at all man. Rough eta 2-3 weeks.

[06Speed6]

I have the PTP baffle and a Cosworth BSD, both have worked fine for ~60k miles. The PTP baffle is a pos but it works and there arent alot of options.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Honestly, i'm with Anthony in that i don't think the baffle is really all that necessary, especially with our oil pick up tube location. You'd have to have the car on 2 wheels to get the pick up out of the oil lol. But with that said, it's really not that much more $ for the baffle with the gpwerks kit, so i would say just do it. I'm running the F2 on my motor and have never had any issues..... (well.... any issues from the baffle). I'd like to get the intakes finished up this week / weekend, and then start the down pipes. I will hopefully see joel this saturday, so i can use his car for mock up on the recirc tube. Shouldn't be too long at all man. Rough eta 2-3 weeks.

Cool, I just ordered the one from gpwerks for $60. It's not listed on their site yet (just the bolt is.. they've been busy), so I had to call. Dude named Tony was really cool... he was telling me that of the 400 or so they've sold in the last year, 100 have actually gone to dealerships in CA, TX, and somewhere else (I forgot). Apparently, some dealerships got tired of the engines blowing up, and are doing the BSD on engines that they had to rebuild. Crazy shit!

Sounds great on the DP's... can you take some more pics of Joel's set up when you have it? I'm still iffy as to how the ebcs in int mode w/ the w/m bcs fs is going to hook up . I'm recircing the 'tip' tube, and Joel did not iirc. However, that isn't much air at all... how much more metered air gets lost through the breather tube? I'm assuming not nearly as much as the bpv in vta, haha. Good stuff bro, thanks for the info + update

[djuosnteisn]

We can talk about the plumbing when you get closer to install, but it won't be that difficult IMO. I can drill and tap for a nipple if you want on the intake. could probably just weld a lil button to thicken up the wall for threads (though the alum piping i use is already pretty damn thick, like 1/8").

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn We can talk about the plumbing when you get closer to install, but it won't be that difficult IMO. I can drill and tap for a nipple if you want on the intake. could probably just weld a lil button to thicken up the wall for threads (though the alum piping i use is already pretty damn thick, like 1/8").

That sounds good bro. I'm doing the install local w/ some pals, so hopefully I can do a write up for people who want to do the top mount set up. I still have the stock dp to get out, and if it was anything like the mani, it ain't gonna be pretty.

Any chance we can torch that thing in half to expedite the extraction, or is that dumb/risky? We never got the CPE DP in because we stripped the 02 sensor (despite car being hot + PB Blaster). It was ridiculous... I've had a new stocker 02 sensor ready since Nov though .

[djuosnteisn]

Our dp's come out in 2 pieces as is, so you don't need to cut it. Once you get the exh manifold and turbo out of there, the dp will be no problem.

Its a fairly long install though and hard to fit into a 1 day window lol. It's doable though.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Our dp's come out in 2 pieces as is, so you don't need to cut it. Once you get the exh manifold and turbo out of there, the dp will be no problem. Its a fairly long install though and hard to fit into a 1 day window lol. It's doable though.

Yeah, the DNP mani is in there now, and all the heat shields are gone, so that won't be bad. I already have a TP on there... those will be up FS soon .

We were planning on 2 days if necessary. I'd rather us take our time and do it right than try to rush, and end up with a pile of fail. I need to figure out how to make the cpe hot pipe work w/ the top mount set up. I can have a custom pipe bent later, but I may have to "rig" something in the meantime. I wish I knew exactly where the ts76 oulet sits... I'll ask Joel if he would measure to the firewall and driver's side fender. If I get the dimensions just right, I may be able to have a custom tube bent in advance and use a longer coupler to give me some wiggle room?

[Chriscote]

I am so incredibly jealous of this build






Keep up the good work

[djuosnteisn]

Just look at where it sits relative to the valve cover and it'll give you a good idea. He used a 45* coupler / reducer and that really made things easy for him IIRC. Darryl did the same thing with his.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Just look at where it sits relative to the valve cover and it'll give you a good idea. He used a 45* coupler / reducer and that really made things easy for him IIRC. Darryl did the same thing with his.

lol, I just PM'd Joel asking if he'd measure that for me in relation to the valve cover, haha. I'm tempted to use an ATP quick tap on that 45* coupler/reducer for the unrestricted boost source... I'd rather not pay to have one welded on as this is just temporary until I have the time to do a proper custom (may be months tho). However, if the ATP quick tap is a bad idea w/ the BT, I will dig through the couch cushions. My current CPE hot pipe has an aluminum barb welded on for my unrestricted boost source.

[djuosnteisn]

You can use the quick tap, or even 'T' off the intake mani or bpv line for a temporary fix (or even long term fix if you want). The ewg doesn't have to be a boost only source, vacuum won't hurt it.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn You can use the quick tap, or even 'T' off the intake mani or bpv line for a temporary fix (or even long term fix if you want). The ewg doesn't have to be a boost only source, vacuum won't hurt it.

Oh, I was referring to the Perrin pro in interrupt mode that needs the uninterrupted boost source, not the ewg... sorry for the confusion :/ Quick tap sounds like an easy route to use for now, thanks!

[djuosnteisn]

The perrin feeds the ewg.... and maybe i'm just having a noob related lapse of reason, but the bov line from the IM is uninterrupted.

[06Speed6]

+1 use the bov line off of the IM.

The EWG uses the boost reference off of the EBC. If the EWG has taps for two lines, you can cap the boost reference one. Ive never used it on any of the WGA and EWG setups that I have worked on that use two sources.

Someone say something if I am wrong on that =P

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 +1 use the bov line off of the IM. The EWG uses the boost reference off of the EBC. If the EWG has taps for two lines, you can cap the boost reference one. Ive never used it on any of the WGA and EWG setups that I have worked on that use two sources. Someone say something if I am wrong on that =P

So it doesn't matter if the boost line is interupted AFTER the "T" for the Perrin? If so, I didn't know that and thanks to both you guys .

[06Speed6]

The EWG, BCS, and BOV don't or shouldn't leak boost/vacuum so there is no real flow through the line and as such you should be able to chain them together without problems. None of the lines are boost or vacuum only so they should all really be refered to as reference lines.

I guess I should also say that the BCS does not measure boost or vacuum pressure, that is referenced off of the MAP which is screwed into the IM. The boost/vacuum reference line that goes to the BCS/WG is solely for the actuation of the WG through the BCS. The reference boost/vacuum psi that goes to the BCS/WG does not have to be accurate as per the readings from the MAP because WGDC and other tables can be tuned to get the desired turbo output.

EDIT: The one thing that can be "tuned" as far as the line is concerned is the diameter of the line. Since the line has to pressurize the EWG, EWG reation time can be increased by using a larger diameter line to the source. Meaning use the largest lines the EWG/BCS will allow and run them as far upstream to the IM as you can.

[dougefresh_]

And this also applies to running an aftermarket ebcs in interrupt mode? That's my current set up, and plan on running it in interrupt mode w/ the BT. It's weird that Perrin makes a big deal out of the boost source 'must' be unrestricted for interrupt mode, which reacts a lot quicker than the stocker bleed set up, but mentions nothing about the size of the lines :/. l actually have 1/4" barb tapped on my cpe hot pipe, and an 1/8th NPT to 1/4" barb fitting on the Perrin for the boost source. I'm now familiar with several local plumbing supply stores, lol.

EDIT: I forget what the big stink is about having an unrestricted boost source w/ interrupt mode. I knew a year ago when I got the Perrin, but it's been awhile, and I honestly no longer remember how the stocker 'bleed' set up is set up, lol. There's a pic in post #3 of this thread of my hot pipe tapped for the unrestricted source, which shows it going to my meth bcs FS and being T'd off... however it's still unrestricted because the bcs FS is N.C. when all is good. You can't see the Perrin in that pic, but it's mounted in the stock location.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ And this also applies to running an aftermarket ebcs in interrupt mode? That's my current set up, and plan on running it in interrupt mode w/ the BT. It's weird that Perrin makes a big deal out of the boost source 'must' be unrestricted for interrupt mode, which reacts a lot quicker than the stocker bleed set up, but mentions nothing about the size of the lines :/. l actually have 1/4" barb tapped on my cpe hot pipe, and an 1/8th NPT to 1/4" barb fitting on the Perrin for the boost source. I'm now familiar with several local plumbing supply stores, lol. EDIT: I forget what the big stink is about having an unrestricted boost source w/ interrupt mode. I knew a year ago when I got the Perrin, but it's been awhile, and I honestly no longer remember how the stocker 'bleed' set up is set up, lol. There's a pic in post #3 of this thread of my hot pipe tapped for the unrestricted source, which shows it going to my meth bcs FS and being T'd off... however it's still unrestricted because the bcs FS is N.C. when all is good. You can't see the Perrin in that pic, but it's mounted in the stock location.

Unrestricted and uninterrupted are 2 different things. Unrestricted means don't use a restrictor pill.

The only time you need to use a restrictor pill is with bleed type setups (like stock). The restrictor pill limits the amount of air flow from the boost source to keep it from overwhelming the boost control solenoid (which bleeds pressure away from the actuator). If you didn't use a restrictor pill, your solenoid could open fully (100% WGDC), trying it's hardest to bleed pressure away from the actuator, and you'd still run spring pressure boost.

In interrupt mode, this isn't necessary.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Unrestricted and uninterrupted are 2 different things. Unrestricted means don't use a restrictor pill. The only time you need to use a restrictor pill is with bleed type setups (like stock). The restrictor pill limits the amount of air flow from the boost source to keep it from overwhelming the boost control solenoid (which bleeds pressure away from the actuator). If you didn't use a restrictor pill, your solenoid could open fully (100% WGDC), trying it's hardest to bleed pressure away from the actuator, and you'd still run spring pressure boost. In interrupt mode, this isn't necessary.

Thanks for clearing that up DJ. I forgot all about the bleed set up

[Boosted Beluga]

So say I'm maxing out my WG. No boost leaks or anything, if I use a restrictor pill this would solve the problem?

[djuosnteisn]

Possibly. Doesn't take much to max out the WGDC on a stock turbo, cause the exh mani pressure becomes so great it'll open the WG all by itself lol.

[bmylez]

Which almost sounds like what's happening to me!

[Docnox]

Now that qwik is outta here, this install will definitely put you at the top of the white 6 sexiness list.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Docnox Now that qwik is outta here, this install will definitely put you at the top of the white 6 sexiness list.

hahaha, thanks. I haven't done any styling stuff yet except $130 for a used badgeless grill + used sharkfin antenna . Not sure what I'm going to do down the road, but once I get around to doing a proper custom fmic, I'd like to powdercoat everything + paint the cailpers. I haven't decided on a color yet, but I have some in mind.... but that's for later .

[dougefresh_]

I'll have my gpwerks baffle pan in the next couple of days. I already have the BSD bolt, and I'll be doing the BSD + baffle a week from today with a buddy. Then she'll be fully prepped for the BT .

I'm going to order a Tial ewg, but I'm wondering what size ewg to use. I was going to go 38mm, but I was thinking perhaps I should go a little bigger for down the road? I'm also thinking about what spring to go with.... I'm using the stock map sensor for now, so I plan on running 22-23 PSI with a 50/50 w/m mix and a D05 nozzle. I want a low spring so if the BCS FS trips, it will cut boost to a low psi.

I'm also waiting on DJ's post about what else I need. There's like $100 or so of misc stuff from ATP turbo I need to pick up. Once he posts that, I'll add a link tp it for other folks going top mount. DJ is also adding a recric tube to the custom sri/tip, so I'm going to continue running the HKS in recric. I'll post pics once the SRI/TIP arrives, and when I pick up the ewg. I'm just gonna put a filter on the breather tube, like Skates and others do.

[bmylez]

A Tial MV-S will work fine as long as you're going to run high boost like you say.

You don't need a huge WG if you're going to be boosting high...a guy with a Focus running a GT35r @ 25psi is using a Tial MV-S. Because he is running high boost, he has no overboosting problems.

Guys with huge ass turbos and super efficient motors, like Corvettes and S2000s, need big WGs. For instance, guys with S2000s only need to run 10psi on a 35r and make butt tons of power. Because it's such low boost, they need 44mm WGs without a doubt.

[dougefresh_]

I got the GPWERKS BSD baffle pan today via FedEx Ground. I already had the bolt, so I'm gonna pick up a couple gallons of synthetic oil, and we're doing the BSD + Baffle this Sunday. Then I'll be all set for the twin scroll 76 as soon as DJ gets me the rest of the kit

[Boosted Beluga]

Sounds great man. Just an fyi if you dont know my car uses 7qts I heard some guys use 6 1/2, so start with 6 1/2 and see where that puts you

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by black beast Sounds great man. Just an fyi if you dont know my car uses 7qts I heard some guys use 6 1/2, so start with 6 1/2 and see where that puts you

Yeah I was figuring over 6 qts, so I'm just gonna buy two gallons of synthetic for $55, and put in one and a half to one and 3/4ths. We'll see how much she ends up taking. Can't wait to get this done. I'll be ordering my Tial 38mm EWG w/ a 0.9 bar spring as I plan on running about 22-23 PSI on the stock map. I'll be running 50/50 w/m mix w/ a D05 nozzle, and I'll have my W/M BCS FS hooked up as well. So, if there's an issue, it'll cut me to like 12.5 PSI. Should be pretty good to start.

It's gonna be set up in recirc mode, except for the dump pipe, that's vta. The HKS will recirc though and perhaps the Perrin's 3rd port. Looking forward to getting the rest of the parts! Intake coming soon, and I'll post pics when it arrives. Then the catless DP, and it's go time!

[Boosted Beluga]

<-----me on the left, your turbo in the middle, and my cloned self on the right hahaha I'm glad to hear your going to go vta on the wg

[nighthawk358]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Yeah I was figuring over 6 qts, so I'm just gonna buy two gallons of synthetic for $55, and put in one and a half to one and 3/4ths. We'll see how much she ends up taking. Can't wait to get this done. I'll be ordering my Tial 38mm EWG w/ a 0.9 bar spring as I plan on running about 22-23 PSI on the stock map. I'll be running 50/50 w/m mix w/ a D05 nozzle, and I'll have my W/M BCS FS hooked up as well. So, if there's an issue, it'll cut me to like 12.5 PSI. Should be pretty good to start. It's gonna be set up in recirc mode, except for the dump pipe, that's vta. The HKS will recirc though and perhaps the Perrin's 3rd port. Looking forward to getting the rest of the parts! Intake coming soon, and I'll post pics when it arrives. Then the catless DP, and it's go time!

isn't a 0.9bar spring a little too low if you want to boost to 22-23psi and hold it to redline?

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by nighthawk358 isn't a 0.9bar spring a little too low if you want to boost to 22-23psi and hold it to redline?

Not really, but I could go a bit stiffer though. 1 bar is 14 PSI and that's 2/3 the full boost I'll be running.

[JacksonMS30]

BT newb question:

Is it necessary to do a BSD and oil pan baffle when getting a big turbo? Reason I ask is that is seems like a lot of people do it but I can't find where it says its necessary.

Build is looking good by the way. I hope to eventually be following the TS path as well

[djuosnteisn]

Definitely not necessary. It's main benefits are from improved oil wear (from increased capacity), and plugging up an oil port on cyl 2 (iirc) that's used to oil the balance shaft. It also improves throttle response, and removes a fair amount of spun weight from the crank.

Only cons IMO are increase vibes, and that varies from car to car. Most don't have issues with it at all.

[dougefresh_]

I'll let you guys know what I think of the vibs, if I notice any. I didn't notice any in Skate's car, and I doubt I'll notice any either. I'll let you know either way. I have my idle at 950 now.... not sure what is good for BSD, but I assume 900-1,000 rpms for idle is fine.

[Boosted Beluga]

My idle is at 1k and its fine. The chatter from the clutch is less also. I only notice the vibes when I left off the gas at higher rpms

[Enki]

Now that summer is here, I run a 1000 RPM idle anyways; keeps the AC from shaking the car apart when sitting at a stop sign/light. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, either.

[dougefresh_]

I'll have to start working on a base map before I can get tuned. Hoping to do the install in 2-3 weeks. I still need to get a custom hot pipe bent to replace the CPE fmic hot pipe so it'll fit, and I can keep the cpe kit in tact for a later sale. I plan on doing a custom TR10 fmic and upgrading the map sensor down the road. 22-23 PSI should keep me happy in the meantime.

[dougefresh_]

I'll probably cut a map w a 1,000rpm idle for after the BSD. I may also reduce wgdc by 50% across the boards just to be safe, add some more boost, and take it from there for the BT.

[superskaterxes]

ill kill u if you get something other then an MV-S

and im pretty sure your steedspeed only accepts that......