atp turbo pricing question, lines and actuator cost 300$?!

[leo766]

it seems on both the atp site and others you can purchase a 3071 and 3076 in a internal wastegate setup(yah yeah fail this fail that i fail i get it dont bother typing im asking cuz i wanna know not cuz i want to go ewg for teh win!) for about 1600 +/-100. However the exact same turbos set up the same way without an actuator and lines, at least to my understanding, costs about 1300$ and not to mention usually gives you options in inlet size(cuz i dont believe in buying atps fail-inlet just cuz they want to put a 1inch thick steel collar around the turbo inlet, not even ported, epic fail for forcing people to pay 325$ for a bs peice of metal that doesnt need to exhist) and A/R to some extent

so basically for a markup they bolt a few things to a turbo and send it out and call it a mazdaspeed 3/6 specific product or is there some thought that went into some sort of design feature i am not aware of... ?

now is this right? cuz in my head i just dont see how a fitting or two and some lines +80-120$ for a kick butt actuator dont run that much these day... or am i wrong... anyone? anyone....

[theschrum]

You cannot get the same turbo for <$1300. Maybe a T3 turbo. You are paying for the specific exhaust housing to fit MS6/MS3 stock mani and DP.

[Dano]

you sir would be right on the money. The cost is in the hotside not compressor side.

[rodrigo]

u pay the extra money to NOT have to do shit else basically...BOLT ON.

to some of us this is appealing.... to some its not.

all out racecar sure... get the biggest and the baddest.... but unfortunately for daily driving... no one here has proven to me that ATP is fail.... its not.

too many guys here chase numbers and dont get shit done with them....whats that tell u??? tells me that we r building too many dyno queens and not enough performers.....

i callz it like i seez it

[kmac]

If your looking to bolt on and go this is the correct choice. You can make plenty of power on the atp setup, I also believe they updated the housing to keep it from cracking and creeping. They only thing I don't like about it is they can not be rebuilt because they are bb. I am bias to precision just because I have been using them with out any failure, and they make awesome power, but if I was looking for a safe and reliable 350 to 400 whp bolt on atp is how I would go.

[Dano]

I haz ATP 2871 and dynoed 350 on some shitty runs

Thread is gone maybe I'll repose both after my next trip

My next trip I plan to hit ~370

BTW they are not BB even though ATPs site says they are.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 I haz ATP 2871 and dynoed 350 on some shitty runs Thread is gone maybe I'll repose both after my next trip My next trip I plan to hit ~370 BTW they are not BB even though ATPs site says they are.

huh??? the ATP s arent ball bearing.... im gonna be really pissed if this is right....seriously pissed!!!!

[Dano]

hum...I didn't think they were

From ATP site regarding the GT series turbos

Journal Bearing - The bearing system in the GT turbocharger allows for improved shaft stability and less drag throughout the speed range. In fact, the GT shaft motion has decreased by 20%, which greatly improves the durability of the bearing system.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/root/technicinfo/gtvst.htm

and actually I can't find where ATP ever said they are BB but I have been wrong before..well at least I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken

[rodrigo]

that looks like they copy pasted some shit from 1990.......

i mean easy enough to find out if i take my fucker apart.... but i d be willing to bet my left nut that they are ball bearing.....

u can tell also because how the compressor wheel spins longer without it being dragged to a stop as quick

[Dano]

That very well could be BUT, if you look up BB turbos on their site and look at the results you will see that they proudly say BB in the title of each product.

Example: This is a link to the GT2871R BB Turbo and without all the MZR specific mods it is 1200 bones.


Garrett GT2871R Ball Bearing Turbo : atpturbo.com

hell, I hope ours are but I wouldn't bet either of my nuts on it.

take your turbo apart Lenny!!!!

[rodrigo]

i aint taking this motherfucker apart....

but here is what i can tell u......

i grabbed my turbo.......orientated it in the manner it would sit in the car.... and grabbed the compressor wheel and flicked it.... it did about 5 revolutions ......

also..... i cupped the turbine inlet and blew lung air into it and the compressor wheels spun some....

now.... i dont really know jack fucken shit about turbos... BUT.... i would be very very impressed if you can get a shaft to spin like this without it having a ball bearing.... the shaft and its components would have to be balanced beyond what was possible and be oiled.... yet have enough mass to keep spinning...

i just dont see how this could possibly have a journal bearning.... in THIS country u are innocent until proven guilty... burden of proof is in YOUR court counselor...

defense rests

[rodrigo]

new evidence introduced......

Journal bearing turbo VS ball bearing - Car Videos on StreetFire

Journal bearing turbo VS ball bearing - Car Videos on StreetFire

tell u this..... im alot closer to the first one than the second one....

fawk maybe they arent ball bearing.... time to burn down ATP????

[Dano]

lenny I think you've cracked the case. BB turbos are way badass and we don't have um

Originally Posted by BT lenny127 i just dont see how this could possibly have a journal bearning.... in THIS country u are innocent until proven guilty... burden of proof is in YOUR court counselor... defense rests

I told you to settle out of court....I win!

[rodrigo]

like i said,..... i dont know shit about turbos..so its not like i have experience at all.... i mean maybe after oil passes through my chra the fucer will spin like that...

we need to call atp.... cuz if having a GT or an "r" at the end of a garret turbo is interpreted as ball bearing... then they need to clarify shit and not misguide.

or....maybe u and i dont know shit and they are ball bearing lol

[jwilkins88]

My 3076 is ball bearing... FWIW

[Dano]

yeah Lenny I think a message to ATP is in order. I'll see what they say.

[rodrigo]

well i did my research.....


here is my turbo CHRA




now take that number and google "chra 70177-5022"

and u will see its a ball bearing commonly used for the Garrett GT series turbos

[rodrigo]

it points to it being a ball bearing.... i mean ATP would have to fucken rebuild the chra and re do shit for no reason.....

i believe i have just cleared my client.... i doubted him for a minute....but justice prevailed

[Dano]

well I'll be damn! you sir are correct and a great detective and opponent.

My CHRA is 743347-5004 indicating the 2871R Ball Bearing turbo!

I knew this thing spooled quick and gave my MZR a serious kick in the pants!

[aaronc7]

correct that "R" basically means dual ball bearing. My GT2560R doesn't spin super freely like that 2nd one in video. I'm guessing it needs fresh oil in the housing etc, so im not worried.

[Dano]

I stand corrected!

don't mind being wrong in this situation

[rodrigo]

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[mdd5148]

Good to know I was able to find this chart myself when looking this up. I think most of the "medium frame" GT series we are using are ball bearing.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...risonChart.pdf

[leo766]

if you search for gt 3071r-wg you can find a .64 a/r turbine(i think the failhousing) and the .86 perhaps non fail version... unless somehow i am missing something.. search GRT-TBO-026 product code on atp site... from what i can tell after doing some more research, is that they attach a few proper fittings and few SS braidedlines and attach a WG actuator and v-band end on the back end of the turbo and vola, a 1300$ turbo now has no options and all the lines you clearly arent smart enogh to attach to a turbo but are smart enogh to attach the same lines to a car/engine/anything else important/mom? hmmm

[madvillain]

The journal bearing turbo doesn't spin freely in that video because it does not have any oil supply. Oil is the bearing in a journal bearing turbo. If theres very little oil, theres very little bearing.

Sorry.. I just want to defend my love for Journal bearing turbos =)

[rodrigo]

FYJBTN!!!

[socks]

yea, mine would spin for like a minute and a half after shutting the car off.

definately ball bearing.

[Dano]

as if we needed more confirmation

e-mail I received from ATP

"The MS3 GT2871R turbo is the turbo with special housings to fit the
speed3 and it's definitely a dual ball bearing turbo"

[rodrigo]

dano.,....now we can say it proudly

FUCK THEM JOURNAL BEARING TURBOS!!!!

hahahhahahaha

[madvillain]

Yeah all the GT series turbos are ball-bearing. Thats why you guys paid $1400+ for them. My turbo comes in ball bearing for around the same price, but I just couldn't shell out that much extra money.

[rodrigo]

who paid 1400?? lol

[jwilkins88]

Lulz... Not I!

[Dano]

Yeah. Journal bearing turbos r 4 inadequate pussies