New Product Release!! MS3/6 and Focus ST Throttle Body Meth Injection Spacer

[maisonvi]

[quote=redneck4Christ;2892118][QUOTE=maisonvi;2892093]... But to say something is engineered? No, you just need an engineer. ...

yes, and to be an engineer requires said license. For my first 13 years in industry, I had an engineering degree, I worked at an engineering firm, I worked With engineers (some non-degreed), but I could not call myself an engineer until I jumped thru the hoops to get my license. I had to call myself a "Technical Professional" or an "Engineer-In-Training". And it Pissed me off. And now I've had to call out two companies that I'm a fan of (and will still buy from). FML

Again, to be a licensed engineer or professional engineer, yes you need a PE. To be an engineer IMO you need an engineering degree.

[redneck4Christ]

Aaand a licensed PE can only claim to work as an "Engineer" in the state or states which they are licensed in. and in their field of expertise.

ie. I am only licensed in Texas, so I could not sign off on a JBR design in Illinois. I am a mechanical Engineer in the oilfield. I could not sign off on building plans or an HVAC design.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by maisonvi Engineered. I still stick by you don't need PE to have something engineered. You need a PE to have something professionally engineered. To be engineered you need someone with an engineering degree.

This is how the rest of the world interpretes it accept a few clowns here on MSF and I have a ME degree.

Our machine shop has several licensed engineers on staff. It's also a licensed provider of contract engineering services. Their primary business is for the US military. All of our designs are reviewed and approved by us both before going to final production. Will I provide the names and license #'s, fuck no. That is not information that will be shared by any company.

At least my company has licensed welders on staff and a mechanical engineer involved in the design and manufacturing. I know of at least one company on MSF,who receives a lot of praise around here that has neither.

So in summary....You can all suck it. Our parts are "Engineered" in the US.

[s1xstringmayhem]

When did this forum become so gay? If you don't like his shit, fuck off. He isn't making anyone buy anything.

[redneck4Christ]

Originally Posted by Raider ... The only easy way to kill this, is just for @jbarone; to stop using "engineered" in the products made, and just let the consumer decide what to buy. ...

This. To clarify the term being used is my only goal. it is Not my intention to bad mouth any of our vendors. I apologize if I came off that way.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by redneck4Christ This. To clarify the term being used is my only goal. it is Not my intention to bad mouth any of our vendors. I apologize if I came off that way.

If this is one of your "Goals" you have issues.

Here's a goal for ya....Stop this shit, work towards making this forum what it once was. Be grateful you still have vendors willing to support this dying platform. Call me silly but those might just be productive goals.

We take a dozen calls a day from guys saying "I can't stand MSF, can you help me?"

You can see it in the declining membership, you can see it in the declining donations, you can see the assholes in this thread are brown. This place has turned to shit. The few of you that once contributed to advancing the platform, now shit on it.

[Amnesiac]

Rough to call people proud of their profession clowns

Lol apparently I'm an asshole too. You have quite the way with customer service

[Gr8Speed]

Anybody remember that time they were in the ER and they asked the doctor saving their life for their credentials? Yeah me either.

[redneck4Christ]

@jbarone

Apology sent. I like your company and products. I have your parts on my car. I have nothing ill to say about this part.

And I did not intend to single you out among the various vendors.

My intention was not to shit on you or bad mouth you and I apologize if I offended you.
-Jason

[Raider]

Originally Posted by Amnesiac Rough to call people proud of their profession clowns Lol apparently I'm an asshole too. You have quite the way with customer service

Considering how this thread turned into a shitstorm, I can see the response is blunt and not sugar coated. But when accusations fly over and over, you get kind of sick of it. I would have been more specific on who can suck it not to make it an everyone. I guess those who need to suck it, can.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by redneck4Christ @jbarone Apology sent. I like your company and products. I have your parts on my car. I have nothing ill to say about this part. And I did not intend to single you out among the various vendors. My intention was not to shit on you or bad mouth you and I apologize if I offended you. -Jason

Apology accepted but not needed. I know you're a good guy.

I think you understand where I'm coming from and the need for the behavior of a few needs to be changed. This forum needs to change.

I may paint with a broad brush but those whom I've pointed out know who they are.

[Amnesiac]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Anybody remember that time they were in the ER and they asked the doctor saving their life for their credentials? Yeah me either.

This is a terrible analogy but I'll play along. Remember when you went to a doctor and they didn't have a license to practice medicine? Would that bother you?

As far as this thread goes there are enough engineers that have posted that think using the word "engineered" without meeting the criteria is an issue to make it sound like a legitimate concern even if it doesn't mean the parts are bad. Easter Bunny may be a troll but Ziggo, Silvapain, and redneck all seem like reasonable people.

Finally, if it's true that the part designs are approved by the machine shop that does consulting and has a licensed engineer I'm not sure why that wasn't the reply to the original question instead of being passive aggressive. Just a minimum amount of customer service seems like it would have avoided all of this.

[redneck4Christ]

(Trying to steer back on topic.)
Good lookin plate ya got there, jbarone! Any other colors you are thinking about offering? Red is one of your standards.
Maybe brown for us asshats?

[BenWhitney]

Originally Posted by Raider When I talk to companies that make stuff for other makes and models, like WRX and Evo about making something for us (stuff not even out), they tell me "not interested" before I can even talk to them. When I ask why, they speak of directly about MSF, and the pretty negative culture that defines MSF..

That is frustrating, to say the least. Just for comparison, rallysportdirect has 18 sway-bar options available for a 2010 WRX. They have 4 available for an MS3 in the same model year. It would be great to see reputable manufacturers, like Perrin for example, approach the Mazda platform.

Originally Posted by redneck4Christ But, since @jbarone claims that this part was Engineered, I am curious what engineering analysis or calculations were done? stress, thermal conductivity, thermal expansion, etc? Just curious.

Can everyone put their engineering dicks away, please? You're not "just curious". You very well know it is unlikely they have done such analysis.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by jbarone This is how the rest of the world interpretes it accept a few clowns here on MSF and I have a ME degree.

These few clowns and the law......

Originally Posted by jbarone Our machine shop has several licensed engineers on staff. It's also a licensed provider of contract engineering services. Their primary business is for the US military. All of our designs are reviewed and approved by us both before going to final production. Will I provide the names and license #'s, fuck no. That is not information that will be shared by any company.

So then if answer is yes, a PE has approved the designs and there is no issue with using the term engineer and it's varients. That's all that needed to be said really.

I was only clarifying that yes the term engineer IS a protected term by law, no matter it's common perception, or how people feel about it.

I take issue with it because of some other companies that use the same term (which I brought up when I was made aware) produced camber arms that proceeded to have failures because of a pretty basic mechanical design flaw, insufficient thread engagement, which any buisness that was actually following the licsencing requirements should have caught. Shit like this degrades the term engineer to mean "it mostly fits, who knows what will happen next" instead of "we actually thought about the design requirements and how to meet them before selling you a product"

Other example being use of adhesive in an intake without proper design review..

I use your products and have been very happy with them it's not meant to be a knock on the quality

[Raider]

Originally Posted by Amnesiac I'm not sure why that wasn't the reply to the original question instead of being passive aggressive. Just a minimum amount of customer service seems like it would have avoided all of this.

Good thought. I kinda wish the same. If there was a way to clean up all the bullshit, have the question, and quick answer without extras, I would myself clean this thread up. But I can see it looking weird for a guy in 2 years to come into the thread and see a "you can all suck it" to the 1 question, and all the deleted posts not seen.

[Gr8Speed]

Pretty easy way to clean up the BS, stop making parts for the platform causing the BS.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by Ziggo ... I take issue with it because of some other companies that use the same term (which I brought up when I was made aware) produced camber arms that proceeded to have failures because of a pretty basic mechanical design flaw, insufficient thread engagement, which any business that was actually following the licensing requirements should have caught. ....

Sad that most of MSF will not know how well you know of the FIRST of TWO camber arm product fails.

There are companies that use the term "engineer" in their name and nobody has a problem, apparently (sips tea), but that is none of my business.

I do not want to delete much though, many get sore over it.

But if @jbarone; cleaned up the response to not be so harsh, and wanted me or any mod to, how many would be opposed to having 2 pages of negativity get cleaned up to a quick answer? All but a few, I bet.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by maisonvi I will say from having making my own that has the same positions as this one, the other supplier that has them on an angle gives you much more mounting options. The throttle body and intake manifold block off 3 of the 4 ports from use on mine.

With 90 degree nozzle holders, 3 of the 4 ports can be utilized with this spacer and the stock manifold on the MS3. All 4 ports can be used on the Focus ST with the stick manifold as well as all aftermarket manifolds.

[MSP6]

@Raider; To be honest I'd rather see all of this 2 years from now then only see the clean up, like you said.

I'd much rather a vendor come and swing away with us and defend himself then to just groan the complaint and disappear or ignore it.

Also I would argue that there is probably a discrepancy between actually titling and declaring oneself an engineer and stating that a product has been "engineered". Without the credentials it likely is, and should be, illegal to declare oneself an engineer. But to use the term engineered for its immediate comprehension and intent for marketing purposes is probably a very gray area at best.

In the end I mean if MDM doesn't GAF, why should we? let them hash it out if there comeuppances to be dealt.

[Haltech]

If a company claims a parts engineered, then provide said proof when asked. I'm not sure why it's difficult to comprehend?

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny What is the license number of the engineer that approved this design? @redneck4Christ;

Just as a refresher this was the only question i posed. I have no complaints about this product nor do i feel that the design requires an engineer to approve it. If the product was engineered, fine the text is fine the way it is. If it was not engineered then the promotional materials should not state that it was.

Originally Posted by acousticdefbot this is how i imagine easter bunny: <3

When everyone with a welder and a chop saw can claim to have "engineered" something this is how we are perceived as a profession.

Originally Posted by jbarone We haven't copied shit.

I never said that you did, it appears that some people took my post as an excuse to go full bore with you on some separate beef. I don't give a shit if you did copy someone else's product its not my fucking problem. For what it is worth, your shift plate was the first thing i installed on my car in 2009 and its still there working the same as the first day.

Originally Posted by danmillerok Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen any vendors fighting it out. There are some members that seem to have an axe to grind with certain vendors. I'll choose to abstain from commenting on whether that is appropriate or not.

I have no ax to grind with any particular vendor, my beef is with vendors and manufactures misrepresenting themselves as members of my profession.

Originally Posted by Ziggo It's a licensing board just like the board for lawyers and the medical board for doctors. It's just not as well enforced, but those of us that are actually engineers are well aware of it. It's like if supplements were in the market as being doctor approved when no such thing occured. "Engineer" and it's varients are protected terms, in so much that you can't imply you are providing engineering services, or engineered products without a licensed engineer review. It's not commonly enforced, but that doesn't mean is not illegal. The difference between "engineered" and "professionally engineered" is taking money for the work. (225 ILCS 325/40) (from Ch. 111, par. 5240) (Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2020) Sec. 40. Unlawful practice. It is unlawful for any person, sole proprietorship, professional service corporation, corporation, limited liability company, or partnership, or other entity to practice professional engineering, advertise or display any sign or card or other device which might indicate to the public that the person or entity is entitled to practice as a professional engineer, or use the initials "P.E.," or use the title "engineer" or any of its derivations, unless such person holds an active license as a professional engineer in the State of Illinois, or such professional service corporation, corporation, limited liability company, partnership, sole proprietorship, or other entity is in compliance with Section 23 of this Act.

this exactly, agree with it or not there are laws in every state in this county which govern who and in what context you are able to claim to be an engineer or to have engineered something.

Originally Posted by silvapain ^As an engineer, this. Any company that claims "engineered" or uses the word in their name or marketing without a licensed PE on staff loses credibility and respect in my eyes.

Its unprofessional, and it creates confusion in the marketplace. an uniformed person comparing parts would assume that the truthfully advertised design was somehow inferior to the dishonestly advertised "engineered" part.

Originally Posted by jbarone This is how the rest of the world interpretes it accept a few clowns here on MSF and I have a ME degree. Our machine shop has several licensed engineers on staff. It's also a licensed provider of contract engineering services. Their primary business is for the US military. All of our designs are reviewed and approved by us both before going to final production. Will I provide the names and license #'s, fuck no. That is not information that will be shared by any company. At least my company has licensed welders on staff and a mechanical engineer involved in the design and manufacturing. I know of at least one company on MSF,who receives a lot of praise around here that has neither. So in summary....You can all suck it. Our parts are "Engineered" in the US.

Any engineer that truly stands behind a design they have approved would have no problem providing a license number. My number appears on every plan, computation and letter that i sign. doing otherwise would indicate that i am not willing to risk my license on the design.

funny how in one thread you have gone from stating that you don't need an engineer to engineer something but magically you employing a licensed welder makes your welding superior. Are you saying that unless you are licensed you cant competently perform the work?

You could have simply stated that your machine shop has licensed engineers on staff, that would have ended this all right there. instead you chose to be a dick since one time i agreed with @Tokay444; in one of your threads. He may have a beef with you but i am not him. (thank god, if i had to live in Canada i would kill myself)

Originally Posted by redneck4Christ This. To clarify the term being used is my only goal. it is Not my intention to bad mouth any of our vendors. I apologize if I came off that way.

This is the same for me, i had no intention of turning this into a flame war. I was trying to be as polite as possible in my original question. to which you chose to be a dick in response even though you had the answer that would have resolved all of this.

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Anybody remember that time they were in the ER and they asked the doctor saving their life for their credentials? Yeah me either.

thankfully i have never had a true traumatic injury that would have been a dire emergency, but every time i go to the doctors, dentist, hospital etc i do look for certifications on the wall or at the hospital read name tags to determine qualifications and decide if i am confident in their ability to perform the task they are present for.

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Nutswinging aside,

Thank you for being honest about what you are, i'm glad that someone in this thread is.

Originally Posted by Haltech If a company claims a parts engineered, then provide said proof when asked. I'm not sure why it's difficult to comprehend?

This is all that i ever wanted. Thank you for posting.

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Nutswinging aside,

Thank you for being honest about what you are, i'm glad that someone in this thread is.


This all being said, i think that i should make clear that i have no vendetta against any manufacturer. I have JBR, Corksport, CP-e, and Damond Motorsports parts on my car. and i purchase the CP-e mount through Street Unit. I have been pleased with all of my dealing and the parts i received. My only goal is clarify the meaning of the word engineered and to ensure that it is being used correctly.
@redneck4Christ; and i have been in a separate discussion where i will be attempting to outline all of this in one place where it does not unfairly target individual parts manufacturers.

[JBR]

disclosing a license number would disclose who the engineers are and who we use to do our engineering and manufacturing...not going to happen.