The MSF guide to Torque

[himurax13]

Has anyone figured out how to get this to work with a 3 bar Map sensor yet?

Sent from Stockish Pu

[Jeff23spl]

10$ones on ebay works but only gives 15-20pids seconds

Originally Posted by sidekick Meh, I ended up buying a BAFX off of amazon, because it was $23 and had nothing but good reviews on there and on some forums. If it's too slow, I'll sell it and buy the one I linked. I should have it some time this week and I'll make a post here about it for people looking in the future.

let us know about connection speed (pids/sec)

[Design]

I've fooled around with various OBDII emitters. All of them average 1/4 - 1/2 second latency depending on the number of PIDs running.

Nothing beats wired.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by himurax13 Has anyone figured out how to get this to work with a 3 bar Map sensor yet? Sent from Stockish Pu

Have you tried adjusting the equation? I'd assume that is what would stop you from getting a proper reading. If the ECU can interpret the 3bar MAP signal, I don't see why this wouldn't be able to. It's odd that it doesn't just read whatever the ECU is seeing to begin with. I suppose it could be hard coded somewhere that X voltage = Y MAP reading. Maybe the OBDII port is pulling MAP from a different PID? It could be a lot of things. We'd probably need someone with more knowledge of how the ECU/CAN BUS function and communicate to figure it out.

@Lex;?

Originally Posted by Design I've fooled around with various OBDII emitters. All of them average 1/4 - 1/2 second latency depending on the number of PIDs running. Nothing beats wired.

Thank you for the helpful info. At least post which adapters you ran, which version of torque, which phone/hardware you're using, etc... There are plenty of people who use higher quality adapters and claim little to no lag whatsoever. The CAN BUS is limited to 512kbps, IIRC. If your bluetooth connection, phone, and adapter can transmit at least that fast, theoretically there shouldn't be any lag.

[Monforte88]

Not a bad set up for cheep.
ELM 327. $12. Ebay
Window mount. $4. Ebay
Old sprint htc evo setting in closet free.







Sent from my P.O.S iPhone!!!

[Jtaylor]

Does anybody have the custom PID information for knock and WGDC? I am unable to install the custom Mazdaspeed extension since my phone is on the older firmware.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by sidekick Have you tried adjusting the equation? I'd assume that is what would stop you from getting a proper reading. If the ECU can interpret the 3bar MAP signal, I don't see why this wouldn't be able to. It's odd that it doesn't just read whatever the ECU is seeing to begin with. I suppose it could be hard coded somewhere that X voltage = Y MAP reading. Maybe the OBDII port is pulling MAP from a different PID? It could be a lot of things. We'd probably need someone with more knowledge of how the ECU/CAN BUS function and communicate to figure it out. @Lex;? Thank you for the helpful info. At least post which adapters you ran, which version of torque, which phone/hardware you're using, etc... There are plenty of people who use higher quality adapters and claim little to no lag whatsoever. The CAN BUS is limited to 512kbps, IIRC. If your bluetooth connection, phone, and adapter can transmit at least that fast, theoretically there shouldn't be any lag.

The standard PID for the MAP signal is scaled to only work from 0-2.5bar from 0 to 1024. To get a reading for a 3 bar you have to read the PID for sensor voltage and apply the linear equation to that to get the correct pressure reading.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Jtaylor Does anybody have the custom PID information for knock and WGDC? I am unable to install the custom Mazdaspeed extension since my phone is on the older firmware.

If you find it, let us know but good luck ! As far as i know, it seem to be a well keep secret. I don't know why you can't install it, i run it from a very old galaxy S1

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Lex The standard PID for the MAP signal is scaled to only work from 0-2.5bar from 0 to 1024. To get a reading for a 3 bar you have to read the PID for sensor voltage and apply the linear equation to that to get the correct pressure reading.

I expect we can't modify the actual pids? We would need to add a new one using the same pid adress with the new equation? Do you know what would be the adress of the maf voltage pids ?

[Jtaylor]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl If you find it, let us know but good luck ! As far as i know, it seem to be a well keep secret. I don't know why you can't install it, i run it from a very old galaxy S1

It has the old "market" and not the new google play so I am unable to find it via the "market". I can go to the site and when I click on the link to download it cant load. I wonder if I could install it on my sd card and then transfer it over

[Design]

Originally Posted by sidekick Thank you for the helpful info. At least post which adapters you ran, which version of torque, which phone/hardware you're using, etc... There are plenty of people who use higher quality adapters and claim little to no lag whatsoever. The CAN BUS is limited to 512kbps, IIRC. If your bluetooth connection, phone, and adapter can transmit at least that fast, theoretically there shouldn't be any lag.

Work friend of mine received three adapters from OBDKey to try out and review:
OBDKey. Automotive Diagnostics

The issue over wireless is simply the refresh rate. And the cheap BT versions like the BAFX module run an older version of the ELM327 chip. Even with more recent firmware, OBDKey BT variant runs around 1/4-1/3 second lag. The Wifi variant runs just under 1/4 second lag. And the wired version runs nearly 0 lag.

BT and wired were paired with my Note II running Android 4.3. on Torque Lite 1.1.49. Wired requires OBDKey firmware to run on Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...systems.obdkey

WiFi was paired with an iPhone5 on DashCommand 4.2.1.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Jtaylor It has the old "market" and not the new google play so I am unable to find it via the "market". I can go to the site and when I click on the link to download it cant load. I wonder if I could install it on my sd card and then transfer it over

why not saving your contacts to sd card and upgrade it's firmware?

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Design Work friend of mine received three adapters from OBDKey to try out and review: OBDKey. Automotive Diagnostics The issue over wireless is simply the refresh rate. And the cheap BT versions like the BAFX module run an older version of the ELM327 chip. Even with more recent firmware, OBDKey BT variant runs around 1/4-1/3 second lag. The Wifi variant runs just under 1/4 second lag. And the wired version runs nearly 0 lag. BT and wired were paired with my Note II running Android 4.3. on Torque Lite 1.1.49. Wired requires OBDKey firmware to run on Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...systems.obdkey WiFi was paired with an iPhone5 on DashCommand 4.2.1.

What was your results for speed of PID/sec?
Does a wired usb dongle will also power the smart phone/tablet? For a permanent (or near to) it needs to recharge from the car...

I have few different tcheap models and all of them operate at 15-20 pids/sec

I read from a lot of places that cheap dongles are slow and expensive ones, could go 5x faster but will it go 5x faster on speed pcm ? It wouldn't worth the expence of a 100$ dongle to get the same speed of a 10-15$ one but ii it is really 5x faster, i'll order one asap.

[Jtaylor]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl why not saving your contacts to sd card and upgrade it's firmware?

Its an extra verizon phone so it has no network connectivity. I can connect to wifi but the current firmware can only be updated over the verizon network. Ive searched everything and cannot find a solution.

[Design]

BT: 66 PIDs/sec
WiFi: 72 PIDs/sec
USB: 180+ PIDs/sec

Any module costing less than $70 is using outdated firmware needed to read of Mazda's CAN_J68C OBD2 protocol. That by itself is the single largest difference between 15 PIDs/sec and 60+ PIDs/sec in the $75-100 modules. IMO, unless you're wanting to log a lot of parameters all at once, wanting real time monitoring with near-0 lag, or are trying to sync with a measurement tool independent of the ECU (i.e. GPS or accelerometer); anything over 60 PIDs/sec is unnecessary.

By comparison, I am running the BAFX OBD2 emitter on DashCommand at 24 PIDs/sec. Average lag is 1/2 sec. I can log AFR, FT, RPM, FP, HP and TQ pretty consistently. But if I add another 4-5 PIDs, everything slows to a crawl.


EDIT: The USB connector will trickle charge the device but will still drain the battery (abet more slowly).

[sidekick]

But is that half a second really a big deal? Torque is not really for logging, but rather live monitoring. If I was datalogging, the lag would be an issue, but for live monitoring it should be sufficient. I guess I'll see when I get my adapter.

I have some PIDs that might work.

Knock retard:
PID - 1746
Equation - (A*90)/256

WGDC:
PID - 16E1
Equation - (A*100)/256

BAT:
PID - 1723
Equation - (A-64)*625/1000

VVT Advance:
PID - 1724
Equation - (A*35)/255

These may or may not work, but they are worth a shot.

[Design]

Originally Posted by sidekick But is that half a second really a big deal? Torque is not really for logging, but rather live monitoring.

Most here would say it's used for both equally. Logging is not going to be an issue providing that 1) there aren't an excessive number of PIDs clogging the pipeline, 2) the time stamp is consistent across all data collected, and 3) the app isn't prioritizing one PID over another (which Torque does not).

The only time it's going to be a problem is when people try to cross-reference the data with external measurements such as the phone's accelerometer or GPS. Generally this isn't a problem unless trying to match time stamps in conjunction with a track app, such as in the readout below:

[sidekick]

That's what your tuner/tuning software is for. My laptop is hardwired when I'm datalogging. IMO, torque may work for logging, but I trust VT/AP more than I trust torque. Personally, I will only be using torque for live monitoring.

[Design]

Not everyone is using a tuning solution with built-in datalogging. All I'm saying (as others familiar with the app will say) is that with the right hardware/configuration, Torque and DashCommand are airtight. I encourage you to share your own findings here or in a similar thread as you tinker with the BAFX module. In pairing mine with DC, it's been able to display/log up to 15 PIDs reliably on my '09.

BTW, I'd expect the Scantool you referenced to be in the 60-75 PID/sec range (similar to OBDKey). They both should use the same communication protocol with a slight variance in the proprietary firmware. It's likely anyone claiming 100 PID/sec is experiencing these results on a different platform. GL.

[sidekick]

Does anyone know if torque updates all pids constantly, or does it only update the pids selected on the current screen?

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by sidekick Does anyone know if torque updates all pids constantly, or does it only update the pids selected on the current screen?

Min/max clamping values in another pages remain to 0 until you look at this page so it may let us know that it's only read pid of the page but it may try to read all of them and only update min/max when you open the page...I would also like to get results from this. The way to test it maybe to compare updating speed of the RPM alone in 1 page and have another page with every possible gauges including a 2th rpm and another setup with only rpm and comparing the reaction of the needle...

Originally Posted by sidekick But is that half a second really a big deal? Torque is not really for logging, but rather live monitoring. If I was datalogging, the lag would be an issue, but for live monitoring it should be sufficient. I guess I'll see when I get my adapter. I have some PIDs that @Chron; sent me to try. Knock retard: PID - 1746 Equation - (A*90)/256 WGDC: PID - 16E1 Equation - (A*100)/256 BAT: PID - 1723 Equation - (A-64)*625/1000 VVT Advance: PID - 1724 Equation - (A*35)/255 These may or may not work, but they are worth a shot.

nice find i will try it. BTW i only want torque for monitoring but if my engine is knocking 1sec and the pcm have to correct it to return to normal, i want to know it, right away! Actually i'm not sure if it is fast enough to catch all possible knock reading and this frighten me. For exemple i used to read some phantom KR while cruizing with Dashawk. After switching for torque, this kr seem to disapear but i run the same map only weather is warmer???

[Jtaylor]

Originally Posted by sidekick But is that half a second really a big deal? Torque is not really for logging, but rather live monitoring. If I was datalogging, the lag would be an issue, but for live monitoring it should be sufficient. I guess I'll see when I get my adapter. I have some PIDs that @Chron; sent me to try. Knock retard: PID - 1746 Equation - (A*90)/256 WGDC: PID - 16E1 Equation - (A*100)/256 BAT: PID - 1723 Equation - (A-64)*625/1000 VVT Advance: PID - 1724 Equation - (A*35)/255 These may or may not work, but they are worth a shot.

Thanks for this, I will try it tonight and get back with you.

[Chron]

Originally Posted by sidekick Does anyone know if torque updates all pids constantly, or does it only update the pids selected on the current screen?

We should be able to figure this out on Saturday. I can bring some recording equipment and monitor what is being transmitted between the vehicle and the phone.

[Lex]

I haven't had the time to identify the PID for MAP voltage that is used for larger sensors. However if you guys identify the PID you can use this to write the formula in Torque and have it read correctly for any MAP sensor.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Lex I haven't had the time to identify the PID for MAP voltage that is used for larger sensors. However if you guys identify the PID you can use this to write the formula in Torque and have it read correctly for any MAP sensor.

What would be the best way to identify that pids number ? I could try to add manny custom pid with successive binary coded numbers and see which one move when i try to change only that sensor value.

It would be great if there was an easy way to scan all adresses at once on a laptop computer or something else to see what is the resulting number displayed

[Chron]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl What would be the best way to identify that pids number ? I could try to add manny custom pid with successive binary coded numbers and see which one move when i try to change only that sensor value. It would be great if there was an easy way to scan all adresses at once on a laptop computer or something else to see what is the resulting number displayed

The map voltage pid is HEX 0900. This is true for 06 and 07. I imagine it is the same for all gen1's but I haven't verified that.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Chron The map voltage pid is HEX 0900. This is true for 06 and 07. I imagine it is the same for all gen1's but I haven't verified that.

What data are you getting from that PID? If you give me 2 data points I can probably let you know how to set it up so you get pressure readings instead of voltages.

The easiest data point is key on engine off.

[Chron]

Originally Posted by Lex What data are you getting from that PID? If you give me 2 data points I can probably let you know how to set it up so you get pressure readings instead of voltages. The easiest data point is key on engine off.

I have a gen2 so my data is irrelevant. The map pressure pid for the gen1's however is a straight conversion to kpa. MAP pressure pid is HEX 000B. This is the same for ms6 and gen1 ms3.

[Design]

Originally Posted by sidekick Does anyone know if torque updates all pids constantly, or does it only update the pids selected on the current screen?

Current screen and any background logging.


Also, I'm not aware of anyone successfully pulling KR without the expansion pack in Pro.

[sidekick]

So with the enhanced speed option check and without unchecking MPG calcs, I'm seeing 22pid/sec on average. I believe max was 25-26. I don't really see any lag that would be an issue and the min/max values are shown, so you would still catch KR events.

[speedaholic]

Oh it definitely catches KR events no problem, even with one of the eBay dongles. I've had a permanent setup for the past year, monitoring every single drive.

If you check out the theme I made in my other thread, you'll se that I setup KR to see the min/max value. I often register 0.1 or 0.4, then reset it. That's how I discovered that 95% of knock I'm getting is between shifts and the other 5% mechanical noise.

Torque is the cheapest "peace of mind" setup imo.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by speedaholic Oh it definitely catches KR events no problem, even with one of the eBay dongles. I've had a permanent setup for the past year, monitoring every single drive. If you check out the theme I made in my other thread, you'll se that I setup KR to see the min/max value. I often register 0.1 or 0.4, then reset it. That's how I discovered that 95% of knock I'm getting is between shifts and the other 5% mechanical noise. Torque is the cheapest "peace of mind" setup imo.

I agree. I've been running with no live monitoring setup for a while and torque is definitely a cheap solution that seems to work pretty damn well. Not to mention, the screens are 100% customizable. The next best solution would be an Aeroforce for $200+ventpod, etc.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by sidekick But is that half a second really a big deal? Torque is not really for logging, but rather live monitoring. If I was datalogging, the lag would be an issue, but for live monitoring it should be sufficient. I guess I'll see when I get my adapter. I have some PIDs that might work. Knock retard: PID - 1746 Equation - (A*90)/256 WGDC: PID - 16E1 Equation - (A*100)/256 BAT: PID - 1723 Equation - (A-64)*625/1000 VVT Advance: PID - 1724 Equation - (A*35)/255 These may or may not work, but they are worth a shot.

none of then seem to work for me (2007 speed3)



Answer from scan tool representative about the speed of the OBlink LX:
Thank you for your interest in our products. OBDLink LX is one of the fastest devices in the market and it will be much faster than any ELM327 scan tool. The speed of a scan tool, however, also depends on the protocol of the vehicle. CAN and ISO 9141-2 are the fastest protocols and Mazda generally uses ISO 9141-2.

So it may worth a try for 69.99$ if it is 3-4x faster

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl none of then seem to work for me (2007 speed3) Answer from scan tool representative about the speed of the OBlink LX: Thank you for your interest in our products. OBDLink LX is one of the fastest devices in the market and it will be much faster than any ELM327 scan tool. The speed of a scan tool, however, also depends on the protocol of the vehicle. CAN and ISO 9141-2 are the fastest protocols and Mazda generally uses ISO 9141-2. So it may worth a try for 69.99$ if it is 3-4x faster

Yeah, I wasn't able to get any of them to work even after having a friend log the data being transferred from a the adapter to torque to see why it wasn't working. Still nothing. Lol. So I bought the plugin.

[Jeff23spl]

for me isn't to save the pluging money but to get boost reading above 21-22 psi that bother me.

0900 or 000b doesn't work either and 010b is the pcm calculated map value limited to 255 kpa

Originally Posted by Chron I have a gen2 so my data is irrelevant. The map pressure pid for the gen1's however is a straight conversion to kpa. MAP pressure pid is HEX 000B. This is the same for ms6 and gen1 ms3.

correct but this absolute map pressure with limited range
0900 is the read result for sensor availibility of the 9th group and not map voltage.

still looking around for map voltage pid but couldn't figure it out

[MechE]

Hey guys,

I bought a Bluetooth adapter, Torque Pro App, and the MS3 10-13 plug-in. I have been playing with it and found the oil temp data built into the Torque app does not work (and is not highlighted in green showing data is available). Has anyone resolved this issue?

I really wanted to be able to monitor oil pressure too, but it turns out that the sensor is really just a switch (ie, too low of pressure = signal to ECU to turn on oil dash light). I should have done better homework before pulling the trigger on this setup.

I've installed everything on my old HTC Thunderbolt with no issues, other than the phone is a small form factor for gauges and this old phone is slow. I side-loaded everything over to my Kindle but the MS3 2010-2013 plug-in is not working properly - it does not show up in the predefined set's list. It appears to install, and I have uninstalled, re-installed, and power-cycled and it doesn't come up. Anyone know how to get the plug-in to work on the Kindle?

Thanks!

P.S. For those who are curious about all the $10 plug-in includes for the Gen2 MS3, see attached screenshot.

[ajkulish]

I dont see why the PIDs from the add on wouldnt work.

But there is no resolving the oil temp or pressure "issues." The ECU does not monitor these values and therefore they do not display in Torque. Torque is just an app that turns the signals from sensors to the ECU into a displayed value on your screen.

All in all, its not meant to be some amazing thing that can tell you everything you want to know. But for less than 20 bucks, can you really complain? youre now able to monitor a bunch of values you couldnt before.

[DevinTheDood]

I'm very interested in seeing the 3bar MAP issues resolved and wanna say a special thank you to everyone with the technical know how and willingness to dig into that.

I wish this would have magically given me oil temp or pressure monitoring but I knew it wasn't there long before I found Torque so that wasn't a letdown/surprise for me luckily.

To me oil monitoring is a must have and I'll go with the needed hardware solution but for now I'm just happy to have a visible coolant temp # for Jujiro's sake!

I'm loving Torque BTW and have decided to send back the cheap adapter I just bought that was already dropping BT intermittently:

CRAP

CRAP
CRAP

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by DevinTheDood I'm very interested in seeing the 3bar MAP issues resolved and wanna say a special thank you to everyone with the technical know how and willingness to dig into that. I wish this would have magically given me oil temp or pressure monitoring but I knew it wasn't there long before I found Torque so that wasn't a letdown/surprise for me luckily. To me oil monitoring is a must have and I'll go with the needed hardware solution but for now I'm just happy to have a visible coolant temp # for Jujiro's sake! I'm loving Torque BTW and have decided to send back the cheap adapter I just bought that was already dropping BT intermittently: CRAP and buy the nice MX or LX edition from scantool which BTW now have their stuff on amazon for cheaper than the scantool site: $59.46 for the ScanTool 427201 OBDLink LX Bluetooth $85.77 for the ScanTool 426101 OBDLink MX Bluetooth (<---why not get all the locked GM and Ford codes too at this price so I might splurge)

No success for 3bars maps on my side but i would be interrested to know if you got your oblink and tried it yet ?

[DevinTheDood]

Woot!

Snapped u a pic before I head out to hoon -
Will report back with results.