My Port Injection Set Up

[Tokay444]

Doesn't matter what angle the intake is on as far as valve wetting is concerned. You're batch firing, and that valve is always going to close.

[SilverDemon]

I thought the meth system is batch fire.....??? (don't answer, that was sarcasm)

[rfinkle2]

In any case, regardless of the group of ideas used, both camps are providing fueling that will be leaps and bounds more reliable than pre-throttle body meth injection.

Hell, erich made 700 + hp with an ots Snow Performance kit.

[Celestspeed3]

Well aside from the colors I think this is probably the regulator of choice.

-8AN to match the intank pump and AN boost fitting for extra piece of mind. Also rebuild-able and alcohol friendly. It also does up to 85psi so you can meter fuel properly if you choose to boost to 45psi.

MagnaFuel EFI Fuel Pressure Control Units MP-9950-B - SummitRacing.com

I think this will be able to supply just about any injectors we plan on using.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

[SilverDemon]

I like it...other than the colors...lol!

[Realgib3]

Scott your engine bay makes me so fucking mad. My next mod is engine bay cleanup so I'm not 100% embarrassed to park next to you at the meet in April.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 Well aside from the colors I think this is probably the regulator of choice. -8AN to match the intank pump and AN boost fitting for extra piece of mind. Also rebuild-able and alcohol friendly. It also does up to 85psi so you can meter fuel properly if you choose to boost to 45psi. MagnaFuel EFI Fuel Pressure Control Units MP-9950-B - SummitRacing.com I think this will be able to supply just about any injectors we plan on using. Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

lol says the guy who claims u dont need a fpr haha

jkjk

personally i like the radium engineering one with a set base pressure thats boost referenced. theres really no need for it to be adjustable since we arent using it at idle/pt and it just takes 1 more thing out of the tuning equation. im still deciding wether i want to do 3 bar or 4 bar for a base pressure though.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes lol says the guy who claims u dont need a fpr haha jkjk personally i like the radium engineering one with a set base pressure thats boost referenced. theres really no need for it to be adjustable since we arent using it at idle/pt and it just takes 1 more thing out of the tuning equation. im still deciding wether i want to do 3 bar or 4 bar for a base pressure though.

I'm running at 65psi and its running great. No data to support the pressure I'm using, other than the fact that In the real world its working perfectly, consistantly, at least as high as ~33psi of boost so far.

[Tokay444]

Then you need to change your damn sig.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Then you need to change your damn sig.

Lol, changed. Back to the 8 injector epicness of this thread now.

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by boost_addict I think you guys may be over-thinking this a little bit. Sure, this set up may not be perfect and the fuel may not be perfectly atomized, but guess what, it will work just fine. Look at all of the big, carbeurated V8s that manage to make huge power by literally just dumping fuel into the intake manifold. You think they give a shit about fuel pooling or atomization? It's really not that big of a deal since we are only using this as AUX fueling. The only problem that I foresee this causing, would be making it hard to tune for the extra fuel. Even if fuel is pooled up on the intake valves, the second they open with 20+ PSI of boost flowing past them, I believe that the fuel will mix with the air pretty quickly. Perfect atomization is really only a big deal in low load/low throttle situations to get a complete burn. At full boost and high load, it really isn't going to make a significant difference in power output and I seriously doubt it will cause issues.

^ This.
Lol @ fuel going down the head runners like Niagara falls.

GM ran throttle body injection systems with what they call "wet manifolds" for most of the 80s and they have much worse fuel atomization than this set up. Shit I remember working on my old Deville and looking at the 2 injectors fire into the throttle body when you you took the air intake out. You literally see the fuel coming out of the injector hitting the throttle blade and think how the fuck does the fuel get to the combustion chamber but it does.

SCOTT YOU ARE DOING JUST FINE DON'T LET THE HATERS POOP ON YOUR PARTY LOL PS I LOVE YOU AND ITS NOT JUST THE ALCOHOL TALKING.

[Tokay444]

Renault F1 Engine - YouTube

Renault F1 Engine - YouTube

[BlueStreak]

^^^ Wall wetting and pooling at valves.

Won't work.

[phate]

heh, it'll be fine. I was just going to say that carb manifolds have been drilled for injectors for years with little (no) consideration of using regular ole injectors that fire right onto the opposite wall of the manifold. 16 injectors, 2000+hp and they're fine, let alone the F1 crazies like the above video shows.

The only time I've really heard of wall wetting being a concern in PI setups is for cold start emissions and AFR control. Since you spray and some fuel impinges on the opposite wall, that fuel delivery calculation was just skewed. Some of it evaporates in time for the next sequence...more impinges....it just screw with things a little bit. Aaaannnnddddd we won't really be using the PI for cold start

Edit: Sounds like some DI concerns, just in a different part of the engine, no?

Edit: Nice work man. Wish I had those tools to play with

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 I'm running at 65psi and its running great. No data to support the pressure I'm using, other than the fact that In the real world its working perfectly, consistantly, at least as high as ~33psi of boost so far.

so wait your running 65psi but you have no mechanical gauge to tell you thats what your running at?

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes so wait your running 65psi but you have no mechanical gauge to tell you thats what your running at?

No, I have a guage on the fpr.

So just nothing in the cabin for now. I set the base pressure under the hood and I'm good to go. I don't really feel there's a need for a gauge in the cabin but maybe down the road I'll change my mind

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 No, I have a guage on the fpr. So just nothing in the cabin for now. I set the base pressure under the hood and I'm good to go. I don't really feel there's a need for a gauge in the cabin but maybe down the road I'll change my mind

out of curiosity what were the conditions under which you set the pressure?


also, can you draw us a quick diagram of how your entire system is setup?

[SarcasticOne]

Preferably in ms paint so everyone can understand it

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes out of curiosity what were the conditions under which you set the pressure? also, can you draw us a quick diagram of how your entire system is setup?

set the pressure in ~40* ambient temp with the pump on, engine off, after I let it run for ~1min.


Sorry it's been such a long wait, but here's the diagram. Enjoy. If anyone has specific questions just let me know.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 set the pressure in ~40* ambient temp with the pump on, engine off, after I let it run for ~1min. Sorry it's been such a long wait, but here's the diagram. Enjoy. If anyone has specific questions just let me know.

So. Much. Win.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go So. Much. Win.

Mad paint skillz yo. hahaha I was bored today if you couldn't tell.

[SilverDemon]

I finished up a little bit more of the work this week. Cut one inch of the fuel rail off each end, made brackets for the rail itself, and had everything welded together by a very talented welder (not me..lol).

Tapped the rail for 9/16x18 thread, cut a chamfer for the -6 o-ring fittings. Made up a return line for mock up purposes. The return line fitting just clears the power steering hard line.

[Celestspeed3]

Scott have you considered running the return into the stock line as @Ziggo; suggested in the other thread.

[SilverDemon]

No, I honestly have not thought about that option. It could simplify the install though.

At this point I am not totally committed to one way or the other.

[Tokay444]

Looks real trick.

[Celestspeed3]

You can also bend the power steering line to give you more room. I did that on marinemazda's car to fit his intercooler piping in.

I would run the feed to the fitting by the power steering. Out of the rail to the hpfp. Then to the regulator and to the stock return line. Russel makes the AN fittings that fit the stock line as well as the hpfp.

[speed3sailor]

this build makes me feel funny in my pants.....

ive got a newb question... why cant you run this setup as your primary fueling?

[SilverDemon]

Thanks!

To date there is no controller that will sequential fire the injectors, only batch fire.

[Celestspeed3]

Well, there is it's just not cost effective. You could wire up a standalone to just handle the fueling of these injectors. If you go that far might as well just not use the disi sytem altogether. The cost factor is simple not worth it.

On the other hand I have access to a piggyback controller that will mimic the tigger order of the stock injectors. When the injector of that cylinder fires it will fire the port injector of the same cylinder and all you have to do is adjust the pulse width, based on RPM and MAF voltage.

[trf5000]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 On the other hand I have access to a piggyback controller that will mimic the tigger order of the stock injectors. When the injector of that cylinder fires it will fire the port injector of the same cylinder and all you have to do is adjust the pulse width, based on RPM and MAF voltage.

Even this would require some specialized tuning, because a port injector would need to fire at a different time than the direct injector. The direct injector is firing when the intake valve is closed whereas the port inject would need to fire slightly earlier when the intake valve is open.

[Celestspeed3]

I don't think so. Batch firing willfire when the valve is closed anyway. If you use an injector that flows enough to keeo the stock duty cycle around 80% than the fuel is only being sprayed when the valve is open. 4x 1000cc injectors should give enough fuel to run the car at high load without even needing the stock injectors. So I don't think it would be too hard to tune.

[jreiden1]

so is anyone running and safely tuned with 4 aux injectors (port injection)???

[Downmented]

Originally Posted by jreiden1 so is anyone running and safely tuned with 4 aux injectors (port injection)???

Is there any reason you have Pablos motor/ turbo setup as your avatar picture?

[jreiden1]

Originally Posted by Downmented Is there any reason you have Pablos motor/ turbo setup as your avatar picture?

its honestly one of the best looking set ups i have seen... and if it didnt involve moving and relocating so much stuff i would have been interested, but it does... so every time im on the forums it reminds me of the beauty that ill never own

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by jreiden1 its honestly one of the best looking set ups i have seen... and if it didnt involve moving and relocating so much stuff i would have been interested, but it does... so every time im on the forums it reminds me of the beauty that ill never own

Where can i order the exh mani in that pic lol and the DP

[jreiden1]

Originally Posted by Deldran Where can i order the exh mani in that pic lol and the DP

you can't it's only in testing for measurements and fittings, and really only a race application... custom downpipe... thats why i said ill never own it, and....

im just looking for an answer if any one is running port, and how they tuned for it?

Originally Posted by jreiden1 you can't it's only in testing for measurements and fittings, and really only a race application... custom downpipe... thats why i said ill never own it, and.... im just looking for an answer if any one is running port, and how they tuned for it?

too many questions... it was just an avatar *sigh*

[SilverDemon]

As far as I know no one is running a true port system yet (batch fire or other wise). I am not running currently as I am still in the mock up stage for fuel lines, fuel cell, and regulator. I also still need to finish the wiring for the controller. I have actually been under the weather for a while now with the flu, and many family responsibilities so I have not worked on it for almost 3 weeks now.

Tuning will be something completely new to me on a setup like this. I will treat the tune much like a meth injection. I will start out slowly adding the fuel until I can maintain an 80% injector duty cycle on the stock fueling at the boost I am running. I will also remove one of the meth nozzles to drop the use of meth to what it was originally intended for, intake charge cooling and a boost in octane.

[jreiden1]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon As far as I know no one is running a true port system yet (batch fire or other wise). I am not running currently as I am still in the mock up stage for fuel lines, fuel cell, and regulator. I also still need to finish the wiring for the controller. I have actually been under the weather for a while now with the flu, and many family responsibilities so I have not worked on it for almost 3 weeks now. Tuning will be something completely new to me on a setup like this. I will treat the tune much like a meth injection. I will start out slowly adding the fuel until I can maintain an 80% injector duty cycle on the stock fueling at the boost I am running. I will also remove one of the meth nozzles to drop the use of meth to what it was originally intended for, intake charge cooling and a boost in octane.

what about the setup that killah is running? is it a unicorn setup?

[SilverDemon]

I don't know what he is running. I have not been following what he is doing. Like I said, as far as I know.

Is his car even running?

[jreiden1]

Originally Posted by jreiden1 what about the setup that killah is running? is it a unicorn setup?

i don't know if it is running... but i saw pictures and they are almost identical to what you have posted up here... but i will do like everyone else and continue to wait lol

thanks for the help and info...

i notice youre in ohio... do you or can you tune?