Just bought a MSP but it looks like a money pit

[luciddream]

Hi guys and gals,

I just bought a 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege from an Auction. I thought I grabbed it for a good price until I noticed there was no turbo under the hood! Why would someone remove it? I have no idea what else has been messed with. The exhaust manifold doesnt even look like you can bolt on a turbo to it.

Before I start dumping money into this car, how much do you think I can expect to invest to get this back to turbo?

Thanks

[jack_hammer]

maybe it wasn't really an MSP. maybe they just put stickers on it. take some pics of the engine bay.

[luciddream]

The carfax says it is a Mazda Speed. I will take pics when I get off from work

[Raider]

Post the VIN. FWIW, if they swapped the turbo guts to NA, they did you a favor.

[luciddream]

JM1BJ227130643084

Wow, really? I was going to flip it for a quick buck or maybe keep it and sell my 01 S4. Should I just get rid of it?

[Raider]

Originally Posted by luciddream JM1BJ227130643084 Wow, really? I was going to flip it for a quick buck or maybe keep it and sell my 01 S4. Should I just get rid of it?

Keep it. They were a mess. you have MSP # 1593

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...ED_Protege.pdf

No reason to run. Post lots of pics of engine bay and car. Really, it may be slowed, but the old ones were famous for zoom zoom boom. Stock.

[802MS3]

The rods and transmission were crafted from the finest glass.

Your best bet would be to try to turn it into an MP3.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by 802MS3 The rods and transmission were crafted from the finest glass. Your best bet would be to try to turn it into an MP3.

And that is not too hard to do. I heard there is a guy who takes and reprograms Protege ECUs into MP3 ECU's, so more power. The NA FSDE block is very solid.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by 802MS3 The rods and transmission were crafted from the finest glass.

I laughed so hard cause this caught me off guard lol

[luciddream]

Thanks everyone, i will look into the MP3 conversion but I really like the fact of having a turbo.
What about aftermarket turbo? Is it worth it? I already have a 2001 Audi S4 which will always be faster than this one. I was thinking of keeping the Mazda as my primary car and selling the Audi because its too expensive to keep fixing.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by luciddream Thanks everyone, i will look into the MP3 conversion but I really like the fact of having a turbo. What about aftermarket turbo? Is it worth it? I already have a 2001 Audi S4 which will always be faster than this one. I was thinking of keeping the Mazda as my primary car and selling the Audi because its too expensive to keep fixing.

Let's see pics. It's more than slapping a turbo on. You would be swapping engine internals, first. Really, the rods are as thick as Mini Mi's pinky. The MSP invented zoom zoom boom.

[802MS3]

I find it the stark difference between the MSP and MS3/6 drivetrain quite startling. Either Mazda really did their homework and wanted a redemption at making a turbo car, or Ford REALLY helped them out.

[Tomas]

I don't think Ford had any input in the engine/drivetrain compartment of the MS3. Chassis is a different story. A common misconception is that the MZR engine was developed by Ford. It was fully developed by Mazda. Ford liked it and uses the design for other platforms. They also produce a lot of it's components. Many in Germany.
The tranny is Aisin so definitely nothing going on with Ford on that either.

Ah. Here we go:

Wikipedia (Links)

Mazda_MZR_engine

[Brian MP5T]

Can you please post pictures of the engine.

It's supposed to look like this..

[bstover17]

Where did you buy the car from? I sold my msp 2 years ago to a guy that blew the motor and sold all of the turbo parts and converted to na with another motor. It was recently back for sale in WV.

[luciddream]

Originally Posted by bstover17 Where did you buy the car from? I sold my msp 2 years ago to a guy that blew the motor and sold all of the turbo parts and converted to na with another motor. It was recently back for sale in WV.

The car has been in Utah, Texas, Oklahoma and now Colorado according to the carfax.

[pzr2874]

^that was the RX7 IIRC...

[Raider]

Oh yeah, never discount the rotary.

[luciddream]

Sorry for not posting the pics sooner, I finally had time to pick up the car from my sisters house. O2 sensor is not plugged in and I cant find where it goes. I haven't even checked the other one. The MAF looks rigged. None of the guages work (they light up though) except for stock ones. There are 3 switches in the glove labeled boost, ECU and MAF (the one labeled boost has an led that lights up when you switch it on).

[Yatta]

wow, a VTA BOV on a NA car... does the boost button do anything but light the LED ? you might have the best MSP ever, go all motor...

[danmillerok]

[Raider]

That's for sure just a protege exhaust on it. Is the CEL on?

Oh, that dual pod on the steering column is a HUGE lead possibly. Are those two pods molded into it? There was a guy years ago making them.

[luciddream]

Originally Posted by Raider That's for sure just a protege exhaust on it. Is the CEL on? Oh, that dual pod on the steering column is a HUGE lead possibly. Are those two pods molded into it? There was a guy years ago making them.

Yes, they are molded in like it was made for that car. fits nicely "Will the previous owner of this car, please stand up!"

Originally Posted by Yatta wow, a VTA BOV on a NA car... does the boost button do anything but light the LED ? you might have the best MSP ever, go all motor...

Thats it! So if I go all motor, what are my options?

Right now it idles bad, almost turns off. Once it is rolling, it is not bad. I will give it a quick tune up soon and hopefully that will help. When I press the throttle, its like an on and off switch. Its either reving or not. I cant make it rev to 3000 rpms and hold it. Kinda wierd.

[Raider]

The plug for the o2 sensor is on the trans, can see that. But I think the two won't match, different plugs from protege to speed. Wondering if the ecu was swapped or reprogrammed to non turbo. Engine bay looks clean overall.

[luciddream]

Originally Posted by Raider The plug for the o2 sensor is on the trans, can see that. But I think the two won't match, different plugs from protege to speed. Wondering if the ecu was swapped or reprogrammed to non turbo. Engine bay looks clean overall.

Thats the same thing i was wondering. How would I know it the ECU was swapped or reprogrammed? as far as the o2 sensors, can I buy different ones or splice in the right connector? And is that why its running rough you think?

Another thing I thought of, is there a VIN on the engine? I'm sure there is, I will search for that.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by luciddream Thats the same thing i was wondering. How would I know it the ECU was swapped or reprogrammed? as far as the o2 sensors, can I buy different ones or splice in the right connector? And is that why its running rough you think? Another thing I thought of, is there a VIN on the engine? I'm sure there is, I will search for that.

There is a sign it is the MSP motor, right on top. The valve cover has the studs for the plastic cover. So I am going to guess, the guy had turbo issues (factory manifold by Calliway was made with high-quality plastic, and cracked worse than Whitney Houston on a bender) and probably just slapped the OEM manifold and exhaust, and dropped it off.

The primary O2 will get that thing running like shit when it is not connected. The question to ask, is if the O2 sensor is any good. Probably not. I would totally park it until you figure out it's running. From the MAf wiring looking hacked up, to the 20 piece intake with a BOV on it) and the wiring mess from hell.

So this is a present for you. F L O P T I C A L . N E T has protege wiring, and service manuals.

[Raider]

OK, that gauge post was $279 back in the day, made by a guy on mazdas247.com named forcefed. he did not make many of them.

[luciddream]

Thanks for all that info and the wiring and service manuals. looks like I have a little bit of work cut out for me. There is a bigger wiring mess under the steering wheel I also have to try to repair. So much for flipping this car soon. I am still seriously thinking of selling my Audi and fixing this one up nice and using it as my daily driver for a few years.

[Raider]

Yeah, non-turbo just helped you out. Fix the wiring, and you will have a decent car.

[Yatta]

Likely it is also MSP ECU, not spinning past 3000 might be a sign of limp mode; if it is fixing the wiring will help, but it will always run a little off if its not tuned for NA The BOV might be a real HKS, you might be able to sell (or use it on a car with a turbo) it but I would not leave it on unless you plan on getting a turbo back on this car, if you plan on doing that I would suggest (as others have mentioned) rods and plan for spending some money, the original turbo was a T25 ball bearing... It also looks like the radiator has been switched out for a larger one?

[luciddream]

It does go over 3000 rpms and the CEL is not on. Maybe has o2 delete option and maybe a tune up will help the unstable idle at low rpms. When I drove it home last night it didnt feel that bad. it gets up and moves somewhat and runs smooth when rolling. I only got it up to about 50 but it felt good. I will see if the person that made the custom guage mount has any info on this car.

[Raider]

I doubt he will have anything, but I can tell you that you need that O2 sensor working and connected.

[CorkSport]

Pick up these part #s to get the radiator secured properly.

ZL01-15-250
ZL01-15-240A

The one holding your rad looks like one of the MSPs which was bent to fit.

With all of the switches in the glove box it sounds like there is a Unichip installed in the car.

Derrick

[Raider]

Originally Posted by CorkSport Pick up these part #s to get the radiator secured properly. ZL01-15-250 ZL01-15-240A The one holding your rad looks like one of the MSPs which was bent to fit. With all of the switches in the glove box it sounds like there is a Unichip installed in the car. Derrick

unichip...blast from the past right there!

[luciddream]

should i leave the unichip or see about removing it? Thanks again for the suggestion on the radiator support. it is loose. the one on the right side is missing also. with the o2 sensor, should i get the msp one or the regular protege one now that it is NA?

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by luciddream should i leave the unichip or see about removing it? Thanks again for the suggestion on the radiator support. it is loose. the one on the right side is missing also. with the o2 sensor, should i get the msp one or the regular protege one now that it is NA?

The part #s I gave you are for the left and right side for the radiator.

I would pull the unichip out or just simply unplug it if you are going turbo again. The ECU is on the passenger floor under the dash bolted to the steel plate. Lookout for sharp edges, it has made me bleed a few times.

-Derrick

[MOCO MS3]

I would look to a few of us that still have their MSP's! One of the biggest issues is the oil starvation! Get the AWR Oil Pan and the Doc B Oil pump Service, you want regret it! Secondly, as was stated before the rods are like toothpicks, so look to do a motor build, better to spend the money now as opposed to later.

I would look into the upgrading the LSD or having the OEM Welded, I would look to M factory for the upgraded LSD. Tuning is a definite must! I am not a big fan of Piggy Backs, I see that you may have a Uni Chip.....I prefer a standalone. It all depends on your budget and goals for the car.....

[Raider]

Originally Posted by MOCO MS3 I would look to a few of us that still have their MSP's! One of the biggest issues is the oil starvation! Get the AWR Oil Pan and the Doc B Oil pump Service, you want regret it! Secondly, as was stated before the rods are like toothpicks, so look to do a motor build, better to spend the money now as opposed to later. I would look into the upgrading the LSD or having the OEM Welded, I would look to M factory for the upgraded LSD. Tuning is a definite must! I am not a big fan of Piggy Backs, I see that you may have a Uni Chip.....I prefer a standalone. It all depends on your budget and goals for the car.....

Marlon,

no turbo in this one.

I would look into taking the Unichip out. Non-turbo, probably most of those gauges are for show now, too.

[MOCO MS3]

In the original post he wanted to out it back to turbo. He should still get the AWR Oil Oan and the Doc B oil Pump service.

[Raider]

I totally agree n the baffle. Never know if it is already in there. But for reliability, N/A is probably best.