The saga continues... more gt3071 dynos

[phailerider]

Last Tuesday I got screwed at the other dyno in town and didnt get my promised numbers up for you guys. Today was my scheduled time at my shop. I felt I had a boost leak on my first runs(march 28) and I may have been right. I made more power on the only two runs of the day.

My torque numbers were low and its possible my tires were slipping. I dont know what else would account for it... if its true than these numbers are still low.

I also have a dyno scheduled at the new joint in town next Monday.... or even this friday/ saturday... my schedule permiting. the new dyno is freshly recalibrated and has all new sensors and shit... Before it consistently ran around 20hp higher than my "baseline" dynos at this place. At least now were looking at around 340-350 there...whatever..lol

I also included a little video that enganear took for us. Stephens a great guy and his dashdyno is quite a little machine. unfortunately.... I think we set up commanded a/f instead of real a/f.

My real a/f ratios were pretty much spot on from 10.5-11.5... road testing with my dashhawk and wideband confirms this. I have that little leanspot we all get.... but what the hell. im over that fucker now. Ive got 600-700 miles on this car since the turbo went on and it is running strong as ever. And IMPORTANTLY.... the standback tune seems to be holding.

Im scheduled for some more tweaking with mark asap as well. Ill keep the news coming as i get it.







These pulls were done in 4th gear starting at about 2500 rpms. It doesnt take as long to get to the revlimiter boys...lol

Video of gt30 dyno video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Video of gt30 dyno video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[surfwagon]

What were your numbers before you fixed the boost leak?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by surfwagon What were your numbers before you fixed the boost leak?

Ive got all the graphs in my other thread.... but they were 306-308. Trq was around 320-325. Thats whats funny... my torque dropped.

Usually we spray vht down on the rollers and my numbers do alot better. We didnt mess with it today... you can see the torque spike on the second pull where hp dropped along with it. Thats at 60mph or 3700rpms... right around where boost is hitting. Probably the tire slipping. We ended up shitting around while Mark talked to CPE... most of an hour about some stuff they wanna try. Their sending him some info and im supposed to go back later this week.

Eh... Im over dynos being the end all. Fucking always one thing or the other. I'll get a good one before its done. Bottom line....

I got the highest CONFIRMED whp ms3 in the country.... at least without spraying. I aint done yet. I'll get this current setup over 350 before im done.

[Laloosh]

i still think that somethign is up....the tq is rather low or maybe every dyno in your town is wacky. With your set up you should be at 350whp 380wtq rather easy. Those big spikes usually indicated tiny boost cut/fuel cut.

[Haltech]

Yea, your torque numbers should definately be damn near 400 with that thumper on there. Looks like you are running pig fuckin rich up top.. you need to lean it out to a 11.2... you got about 35hp and 60 pounds of torque trapped in there.

[mrlilguy157]

Originally Posted by Haltech Yea, your torque numbers should definately be damn near 400 with that thumper on there. Looks like you are running pig fuckin rich up top.. you need to lean it out to a 11.2... you got about 35hp and 60 pounds of torque trapped in there.

what he said, now seeing your AFR's and your charts!

[occschemguy]

ya im disipointed with those numbers i would expect 350 -380 hp at least and at least 400lbs with the 3071 i think u need to play with your tuning.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech Yea, your torque numbers should definately be damn near 400 with that thumper on there. Looks like you are running pig fuckin rich up top.. you need to lean it out to a 11.2... you got about 35hp and 60 pounds of torque trapped in there.

thats where Im at. In the first post I stated dashdyno a/f was reading COMMANDED a/f ..... My car is at 10.5-11.5 all through the power band.

I do feel like something is "up". Maybe my IC... maybe fuel? My fuel pressure was not what it could have been. All 1600-1700s as you can tell from the video. Im gonna try to datalog some more stuff today.

[Laloosh]

or it could be the fact that dynos are bullshit and never the same....hence the reason why i hate them and think they are completly over ratted

[phailerider]

I hear you on the dynos... but if you dont make a number everybody assumes theres something fucked up with your car.

Ive bolted every damn thing I can on here, Im running 18psi on a gt30, the car rips.... but Im not making 375/400 so there must be something wrong...lol

Problem is.... I think there is.

PGs ms6 made 329/ 394awd and then went out and trapped 109 or something... I KNOW this car will trap more than that.

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by Haltech Yea, your torque numbers should definately be damn near 400 with that thumper on there. Looks like you are running pig fuckin rich up top.. you need to lean it out to a 11.2... you got about 35hp and 60 pounds of torque trapped in there.

agree 100%

although being in the safe zone is nice
your HP/TQ is taking a vacation in your AFR's

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by whoosh agree 100% although being in the safe zone is nice your HP/TQ is taking a vacation in your AFR's

guys... my a/f is in the 10s and 11s. In the video you were looking at COMMANDED a/fs. They could not have been actual.

MY.... wideband, dashhawk, and dyno sniffer all are giving me 10.5-11.2. Not the 9's in the video.

[Bravnik]

What I want to see is a 1/4 mile run.....now get your ass out to the track with some slicks and show us some 11's.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Bravnik What I want to see is a 1/4 mile run.....now get your ass out to the track with some slicks and show us some 11's.

That is the intent.... this is a whole waste of everybodys time if I dont get some times..... especially if Im not gonna have a dyno queen....lol

[gsrtype1]

you should be making more power with yur mods, still nice though...

[phailerider]

OK...reasons my power is low.... just got of the phone with anthony(Driver311). Heres our thoughts.

#1 Starting the runs at 2500 with a bigger turbo running much lower in its efficiency range will result in.... lower torque numbers. Loading the turbo up from 1800-2000 would give different numbers. Anthony thinks 50-60 more. Its possible we were starting lower the other day. On this one Im like.... ehhh ..maybe. I hope so. I actually think it has more to do with the size of the turbo.. The whole range has changed and I question why ATP never listed torque numbers on their website when they sold the turbo.

Only HP... maybe the trq wasnt a selling point and thats why they omitted it. Would trq be different on the ms6 vs the ms3... awd vs fwd? Would it hit higher?

#2 Right now I am using the mscai rigged to the inlet with a chopped down pipe off the cobb sri.

When I bought the turbo, ATP stated in a private email to mrlilguy that they felt like the 3in MAF was a "critical" tuning device on the car with a gt30. I didnt believe it because I thought it would cause fuel issues... but now I think that to properly lean the car out and make bigger numbers a 3in maf is mandatory.

Most of yesterday my tuner was talking to cpe about my MAF. Its TOTALLY maxed right now at 4.8+. He thinks looking for more power is pointless until we get a fix. CPE is researching this as we speak. Thats why Im getting the datalogs and hopefully they can find a fix.

#3 My intercooler still is very small. Beautiful intercooler for a guy using basic mods.... way to small a core and piping for what I need now. The atp IC that was used on the test mule had higher efficiency.

ideas anyone? This car is my dope and I want to understand. Im cool with running a smaller maf if it means Im keeping my car safer... Id just want to know that this is the actual choice.

[gsrtype1]

youl figure it out i'm sure!! mabe with the bigger turbo u just have to sacrifice low end torque, you got a sweeet setup, hey your saying u need a bigger intercooler can't you just swap your core out for a bigger one?

[Grim]

i think its a mix of number 2 and 3

[gsrtype1]

just chop off the core and put in a big one!!

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by palerider guys... my a/f is in the 10s and 11s. In the video you were looking at COMMANDED a/fs. They could not have been actual. MY.... wideband, dashhawk, and dyno sniffer all are giving me 10.5-11.2. Not the 9's in the video.

Why would you even bother reading commanded AFRs than? Its pointless when tuning.

[dadasracecar]

Originally Posted by palerider Most of yesterday my tuner was talking to cpe about my MAF. Its TOTALLY maxed right now at 4.8+. He thinks looking for more power is pointless until we get a fix. CPE is researching this as we speak. Thats why Im getting the datalogs and hopefully they can find a fix.

If you have maxed your MAF then there is no more power to be had with that MAF/ecu. You're done. HP is made with air and fuel and your car cannot take any more air without maxing out it's measuring stick and likely causing fuel cut. I think this is really excellent information. To hell with the dyno numbers. Any of a bunch of things could affect them. If your afrs are where you want and you're getting the most out of the MAF that you can get the only thing left to do is drive it unless you want to risk messing with the timing. I didn't see an egt on your setup and I wouldn't recommend doing a whole lot of timing adjustments w/o one.

Anyway, congrats. Highest hp ms3 (w/o meth) and new information on the MAF.

EDIT: IIRC you're on a loaded mustang dyno. If that's the case then you're numbers will be lower than those measured on a dynojet.

[phailerider]

I just went out to datalog this thing.. with 2 extra people in it.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech Why would you even bother reading commanded AFRs than? Its pointless when tuning.

IT WAS A MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!

[mrlilguy157]

good log. fuel pressure looks about right. I thought the standback had a MAF scalar or something?

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by palerider IT WAS A MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!

[enganear]

Originally Posted by palerider IT WAS A MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!

Likely a mistake, still a mystery to me until I get clarification from Auterra about that particular parameter. The manual is not very clear on the definition and there are several Air Fuel Ratio parameters from which to choose.....
-enganear

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech

id only repeated it like 5 times...I knew that a/f we got was gonna fuck people up. i posted it mainly for the FP, rpms, and "sound"...lol

the datalog shows my a/f.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by enganear Likely a mistake, still a mystery to me until I get clarification from Auterra about that particular parameter. The manual is not very clear on the definition and there are several Air Fuel Ratio parameters from which to choose..... -enganear

that is a common mistake with the dashhawk as well stephen.... either way it was nice to see.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by palerider id only repeated it like 5 times...I knew that a/f we got was gonna fuck people up. i posted it mainly for the FP, rpms, and "sound"...lol the datalog shows my a/f.

Some of us really dont read when we see pics.. we look at the numbers. Anyhow, you need to take your ass to a Dynojet facility. These mustang dynos are fuckin me up.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech Some of us really dont read when we see pics.. we look at the numbers. Anyhow, you need to take your ass to a Dynojet facility. These mustang dynos are fuckin me up.

I dont know where dada got mustang from... its a dynojet. An older one... but a dynojet.

kevin... you'll get a kick out of this..
there are two available dynos in my town. This one is used by an old school but nationally known tuner. The place looks like a wreck from the outside but the guy is an innovator and is pretty well respected. His dyno is notoriously low.

the other one is about 6 months old. The first month they drove a car right off the dyno and another one caught the ropes on fire!!!!!! lol brand new and operated by kids at an upscale garage on the "dealership" section of town. The rep is it reads "20 hp" more than Marks..... whatever that means.

Both places are a little "atypical".... and we use them at our own risk

BTW.... what do you think of my log... a/fs still show lots of room. Plus, weirdly.... my MAF is not "maxed" on the street. On the dyno its in the 4.6-4.8+ range... my log shows 4.5 on the street.

[Haltech]

Randy, you have a lot more power trapped in that car.. I would go balls out, get meth on that car and get some timing in there.. Lean that bitch out on the top end and i wouldnt doubt 375 and 400+ tq out of that low dyno. I dont know how the standback is working for you in tuning, but you guys have room to pull a lot of fuel out.

Originally Posted by palerider I dont know where dada got mustang from... its a dynojet. An older one... but a dynojet. kevin... you'll get a kick out of this.. there are two available dynos in my town. This one is used by an old school but nationally known tuner. The place looks like a wreck from the outside but the guy is an innovator and is pretty well respected. His dyno is notoriously low. the other one is about 6 months old. The first month they drove a car right of the dyno and another one caught the ropes on fire!!!!!! lol brand new and operated by kids at an upscale garage on the "dealership" section of town. The rep is it reads "20 hp" more than Marks..... whatever that means. Both places are a little "atypical".... and we use them at our own risk BTW.... what do you think of my log... a/fs still show lots of room. Plus, weirdly.... my MAF is not "maxed" on the street. On the dyno its in the 4.6-4.8+ range... my log shows 4.5 on the street.

[driver311]

I think the numbers are right on par for the setup. Im thinking a different intake and intercooler alone will yield big gains. Keep us posted bro.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by driver311 I think the numbers are right on par for the setup. Im thinking a different intake and intercooler alone will yield big gains. Keep us posted bro.

I think it is a safe assumption that i will!!! I dont think we're gonna see the trq everybody thinks we will. Im glad you agree with me there. I want 350/340 on this setup on the other dyno.... that will get everybody to back down a little.

Then I make the intake/ic upgrades and we go from there.

Kevin... I WILL be spraying using water/meth eventually. Ive even considered a secondary fuel rail. Im super excited to see what PTP and Whoosh are cooking up for more fuel, in addition to the pumps. I want to take this as far as I can without it first though.

[Derek88]

322? Who gives a shit. There is NO comparison in this car now and where it was/I am now. The sounds, the feel... it's in a different category altogether. My car feels quick, this car is fast.

We were all surprised when we first drove the MS3. The power in 1st and 2nd was nice, but when it would sit you back in 3rd and a little in 4th, we were all sold. Randy's pulls in 4th, 5th, and 6th how mine feels in 3rd. I cruise at 50mph and punch it in 3rd and grin when it sits me back. When Randy cruises at 90 in 5th and punches it, I laugh at what it does...

We need to line them up or something

[Haltech]

Do some 40 mph rolls and start posting videos!

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Derek88 322? Who gives a shit. There is NO comparison in this car now and where it was/I am now. The sounds, the feel... it's in a different category altogether. My car feels quick, this car is fast. We were all surprised when we first drove the MS3. The power in 1st and 2nd was nice, but when it would sit you back in 3rd and a little in 4th, we were all sold. Randy's pulls in 4th, 5th, and 6th how mine feels in 3rd. I cruise at 50mph and punch it in 3rd and grin when it sits me back. When Randy cruises at 90 in 5th and punches it, I laugh at what it does... We need to line them up or something

there is some serious fucking sig material in that post brother...lol

We do need to get our cars together... im curious myself. We'll let Joey be the cameraman and he can sit in yours. I'll take Stephen

[Derek88]

Originally Posted by palerider there is some serious fucking sig material in that post brother...lol We do need to get our cars together... im curious myself. We'll let Joey be the cameraman and he can sit in yours. I'll take Stephen

Stephen is probably more mature than we are, but it would be BADASS to get a 3 way race. Stock vs mildly modded vs big dawg---silver vs blue vs black


I think the 335i would be a good camera car. Or the Talon. I race alone

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Derek88 Stephen is probably more mature than we are, but it would be BADASS to get a 3 way race. Stock vs mildly modded vs big dawg---silver vs blue vs black I think the 335i would be a good camera car. Or the Talon. I race alone

Chads car would be a nice camera car. Plus hes gonna wanna roll with me anyway. Since he chipped that fucker hes been talking mad shit about it.

btw..I was joking about stephen..sort of. I dont think he is as mature as you think..lol His hobby is building and fighting toy robots for crying out loud. we got an invite to his next "robot war". That'll be fun as hell!!!!

[driver311]

I think the dyno you are using is also inconsistant. You fixed a boost leak and lost 50ftlbs. I think not. LOL

[driver311]

Ps. Boys sorry to bust your bubbles. But his torque will be close to whp if not a little less with a big turbo. Especially if the boost is holding solid. Its just not the same as a little turbo. Im positive. Ive seen it over and over again on srts and evos. For instance. The last srt I did.

Stock turbo 305whp 375ftlbs. 22psi falling to 17psi (just like our car would do on stock turbo)
50trim 420whp 415ftlbs. 22psi holding 22psi. ( just like randys car did)