Pill size and Acuator Spring Pressure

[Raider]

Yeah, Jake, noticed that too. Medieval tranny mounts are also for sale on eBay...cheap!

[JTMS3]

Originally Posted by jhershorin No offense but the people / companies you are mentioning are all failures. lol. ptp?

I saw the threads I could find on PTP from here and other forums and I did see there was a couple "issues" (one being user error from everything I read), overall they seem to have a solid product. Sure I could shell out the $ for the CP-e but I am not looking to drop that $$ right now. I spoke to ppl and read a lot about them vs KMD's and ppl seem to prefer PTP.

Point is... people run into issues with some form of hardware or service that is offered and paid for. You take risk with anything as NOTHING is 100% perfect. Considering I am feeling it right now with my tune, I am not making decisions with my eyes closed. I have read there have been more than 2 fails of the CP-e FP, so I should not buy it based off that information? No, I think CP-e is a great product as well based off the research I have read, just like the PTP internals. Just not looking to spend the dough on the CP-e.

F this.. enough thread jacking from me on this subject...

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by JTMS3 I saw the threads I could find on PTP from here and other forums and I did see there was a couple "issues" (one being user error from everything I read), overall they seem to have a solid product. Sure I could shell out the $ for the CP-e but I am not looking to drop that $$ right now. I spoke to ppl and read a lot about them vs KMD's and ppl seem to prefer PTP. Point is... people run into issues with some form of hardware or service that is offered and paid for. You take risk with anything as NOTHING is 100% perfect. Considering I am feeling it right now with my tune, I am not making decisions with my eyes closed. I have read there have been more than 2 fails of the CP-e FP, so I should not buy it based off that information? No, I think CP-e is a great product as well based off the research I have read, just like the PTP internals. Just not looking to spend the dough on the CP-e. F this.. enough thread jacking from me on this subject...

If you think PTP has a solid product, then you haven't read enough. Their fail rate on pumps is retarded bad....
Bottom line is CPE is the only company that sells an aftermarket pump that actually has as testing rig to bench them. That is why their rate of success is much higher. Giving money to John B (PTP) is as good as burning it.

[jhershorin]

JTMS3 - you seem like a nice guy and thats what matters - i have no beef with you - I just think your walking a bad path with your modding decisions...people have been around here / this platform for a long time and we don't just make shit up for fun (even though this stuff is sort of fun). John@shopct may be a good tuner but he doesn't know the ins and outs of this platform and he's learning on customer cars and at their expense and that's not right imho. As for ptp - that pump most likely has the highest failure rate of all of the setups out there. He claimed 2% failures overall. He claimed he sold about 400 pumps. I can name a few people who had 3 sets fail on each one of them alone. Lets say its 3 people. Thats 9 pumps...8 pumps would be 2%...that means NO ONE else had issues...

anyways - next step in your modding path would be to call up brice down in florida...he has some great mods for you...i keed i keed...

good luck bud...i mean it sincerely

[JTMS3]

Thanks, if you mean or not. I understand what you are saying about John, believe me. But really lets see what my opinions are now with that situation?
1. ship him my ECU like Smitty and pay $100+ (from IL) in shipping to put it back to stock and get a refund. which will end up really being $500 minus whatever the dealer wants to fuck me out of as well.
2. Let him finish what he started and if he can't them go to the dealer, flash it back to stock and still have an AP out of the deal. AND still get fucked by the dealer.

As for PTP, I respect your opinions but I am not buying a pump, just replacing the internals. AGAIN, if i was going to replace the pump... I would be buying the CP-e! IF AND WHEN I have to replace it (since the stock FP has been known to fail as well), then that will be the move I make.

Honestly, if it were up to me I would be getting the CP-e pump but unfornately I have a wife that is an accountant so that is not an easy expense to justify to her at this time of year.

[jhershorin]

I was being sincere. The ptp internals fail a lot of the time - just be careful - the good news is then John@shopct can blame john@ptp instead of accepting responsibility for not knowing how to tune customers ms3s since he learned to tune them on customer cars in the first place (still learning)...

[smitty5788]

justify it by showing her how much a new MZR costs

[Amazon]

Why not get the KMD internals? Much better track record and they cost less too

[JTMS3]

Originally Posted by Amazon Why not get the KMD internals? Much better track record and they cost less too

well I have found threads about the KMDs having issues as well.

Originally Posted by smitty5788 justify it by showing her how much a new MZR costs

Peer pressure is a bitch, but honestly I agree with you guys about just getting the CP-e pump. I think I will have to override the woman on this one if you guys really believe I am going to blow the motor with just replacing the internals. Already reached out to the vendor to cancel the order I placed last night, I can guarantee he didn't order it (another banned vendor from here!) considering that is the reason he was banned for lack of response and ordering things in a timely matter for customers.

[socks]

I had the KMD internals for over a year. They worked great for me, they are still in a local friends ms6 now, and as far as i know, running strong for him as well.

[Amazon]

Originally Posted by JTMS3 well I have found threads about the KMDs having issues as well.

Iirc, that was mainly due to improper installation.

[Speed3eak]

Originally Posted by JTMS3 Peer pressure is a bitch, but honestly I agree with you guys about just getting the CP-e pump. I think I will have to override the woman on this one if you guys really believe I am going to blow the motor with just replacing the internals. Already reached out to the vendor to cancel the order I placed last night, I can guarantee he didn't order it (another banned vendor from here!) considering that is the reason he was banned for lack of response and ordering things in a timely matter for customers.

Honestly, just make sure to have a way to datalog fuel pressure. John's pumps do seize, but there are a handful out there that are running well. I think 9900 has a set in his car and hasn't had issues with them. If you've already paid for the internals, there really isn't any sense in burning another $600 on a set of pumps from cp-e IF THEY'RE HOLDING PRESSURE. However, they have been known to seize frequently, so make sure you keep an eye on fuel pressure.

After 3 or 4 sets you may want to go cp-e, and I'm not defending john's product, but if the internals work then I see no reason to drop $$$ right this minute. If it were me, I'd wait and see how the internals hold up before making any more moves. Unless you can get a refund from john, in which case I would do that and go cp-e or kmd.

[JTMS3]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Honestly, just make sure to have a way to datalog fuel pressure. John's pumps do seize, but there are a handful out there that are running well. I think 9900 has a set in his car and hasn't had issues with them. If you've already paid for the internals, there really isn't any sense in burning another $600 on a set of pumps from cp-e IF THEY'RE HOLDING PRESSURE. However, they have been known to seize frequently, so make sure you keep an eye on fuel pressure. After 3 or 4 sets you may want to go cp-e, and I'm not defending john's product, but if the internals work then I see no reason to drop $$$ right this minute. If it were me, I'd wait and see how the internals hold up before making any more moves. Unless you can get a refund from john, in which case I would do that and go cp-e or kmd.

Well didn't order them from John directly. If I can't get the order cancelled I will stick with the internals and see how they hold up. I don't think I will go through 3-4 sets before moving to CP-e. The first time there is an issue I will replace it with the CP-e. Thanks for input on this matter.

[:: Gusto ::]

I just bought the cpe hpfp...should go in with on a few weeks

[Raider]

Best move ever.

[9900rpm]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Honestly, just make sure to have a way to datalog fuel pressure. John's pumps do seize, but there are a handful out there that are running well. I think 9900 has a set in his car and hasn't had issues with them. If you've already paid for the internals, there really isn't any sense in burning another $600 on a set of pumps from cp-e IF THEY'RE HOLDING PRESSURE. However, they have been known to seize frequently, so make sure you keep an eye on fuel pressure. After 3 or 4 sets you may want to go cp-e, and I'm not defending john's product, but if the internals work then I see no reason to drop $$$ right this minute. If it were me, I'd wait and see how the internals hold up before making any more moves. Unless you can get a refund from john, in which case I would do that and go cp-e or kmd.

I run John's (PTP) pump. I had a minor issue with my pump (it didnt seize or anything, and i ran it until a day after my 12.6 run) and PTP was very responsive. All bullshit aside, when the problem came up, I shot him an email for shits and giggles, not expecting anything, but he got right back to me and helped me out. I know a lot of people here don't like his business practices or his products, but I will vouch that his pumps (current generation ones) work like they are supposed to. Holds pressure to redline. Also, the price of his pump is competitive.

Oh, and I got the pump, assembled by him. This is the way to go, because if it fails, human error on my end is taken out of the equation.

[Speed3eak]

Yeah, I don't understand it myself.

On the one hand, you have him marketing the MAF screen, making ridiculous claims (a kicker mount eliminating tq steer?), and his business going chapter 11, as well as stories of him learning on his customer's vehicles, etc.

On the other hand, he does seem to be pretty responsive when people have problems. I haven't heard of him refusing to replace a pump - only bad thing seems to be that everyone who gets a pump from him needs to get more than 1 go round to get a working pump. He does seem to stand by the whole lifetime warranty thing though.

I personally don't plan on getting anything from him, but the guy confuses the hell out of me.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Yeah, I don't understand it myself. On the one hand, you have him marketing the MAF screen, making ridiculous claims (a kicker mount eliminating tq steer?), and his business going chapter 11, as well as stories of him learning on his customer's vehicles, etc. On the other hand, he does seem to be pretty responsive when people have problems. I haven't heard of him refusing to replace a pump - only bad thing seems to be that everyone who gets a pump from him needs to get more than 1 go round to get a working pump. He does seem to stand by the whole lifetime warranty thing though. I personally don't plan on getting anything from him, but the guy confuses the hell out of me.

Personally I think John of PTP is a true innovator, only short on cash.
He experiments as best he can on customers cars.
He is responsive...... better than John@theshopct anyway....

But the way he operates is not conducive to profit.
Hence the bankruptcy.
I was sorry to see it, but that is the way it is.

Given unlimited cash and time I believe John (PTP) would be a good innovator/vendor
It is a shame that the reality of business drive someone out of business but that is the way it is......

The MAF mesh screen however was fail and smoke/mirrors from the start, that does not create a good image.......

[Speed3eak]

Well, there are other examples of BS too, the MAF screen wasn't a 1 time thing.

Stage 2 fuel pumps

Custom ground MZR DISI cams

I can't think of any more right now. But I agree with you about the infinite time/money thing.

[jhershorin]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Well, there are other examples of BS too, the MAF screen wasn't a 1 time thing. Stage 2 fuel pumps Custom ground MZR DISI cams I can't think of any more right now. But I agree with you about the infinite time/money thing.

All the pcv crap (including but not limited to the reducer pill, drilling the valve cover, etc.). Not saying some didn't work (although some caused big issues like dipsticks popping).

Injector seals, injector crows feet reinforcement, sidemounts?, etc.

The list goes on. Its not just that he has failed projects - its that he has failed projects, copies members ideas and then lies about it (basically stealing designs from members and other vendors which he had a rep for on other forums as well), etc.

[9900rpm]

I think John (PTP) would do much better if he got somebody to take care of the business end of his stuff. I know he has that DFDD company going on. Hopefully his ways of business is new like the name.

With the kicker mount thing, I actually thought about giving it a try, not for the torque steer thing, but to keep the motor from rocking. I have a few things going on at the moment to try to keep the motor in place. The RMM that everybody gets just isn't doing it for me. I am already running the stiffest one out there, and motor still rocks. The long bolt comes loose about once every month and a half or so (it just got loose again yesterday, even with blue Loctite). The whole mount configuration setup on this car is just gay. It could be my driving style though.

I am a believer in innovation, and this guy does seem to come up with some clever shit every so often.

To each their own.

[Nataphen]

CPE or SU SMMs, Terry.

[06Speed6]

Johns custom ground cams are legit, its my design and research =P

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Johns custom ground cams are legit, its my design and research =P

No surprise there...

I would have been surprised if you said it was john's lol.

[Nataphen]

Dustin and 06Speed6, how much do those cams do for these cars? I know I could research it for detail, but just a quick answer.

[Mazdanspeed3]

same ^ any gains at all? worth the money?

[djuosnteisn]

AFAIK, Marcus isn't running them yet, but i'm not sure about the specifics on his car.


I'm not running cams... and have no clue what benefits they hold. Personally i'd just up the boost... lol. I know Cagey was pricing a set a while back, so he may be a better person to ask.




I know it's probably a lil late, considering this topic has died down....

... but i figured I'd post an example of using the throttle to mitigate boost spike.

This is a log from a guy i just e-tuned this last weekend (new years). He's pretty much fully bolted and running a re-worked turbo that was extremely spike happy (26psi on occasion i guess).

Originally he was running a MBC to help keep the spikes at bay, but i wanted to use the OEM BCS so we could keep boost low in lower rpms, then raise it higher where the turbo is efficient, and taper it back off toward redline as the efficiency falls off... basically maximizing his power under the curve.

Here's the log:





You can see how the throttle position remains somewhat shut, even though the pedal is matted.

There's nothing really all that special or difficult about getting the ecu to do this, you just need to be sure the OL-CL delays and load tables are setup appropriately.


This was on a speed 6, so gears 2nd - 5th look quite similar. But on speed 3's, it can also be useful to maximize traction in lower gears by using the gear based load tables.

[06Speed6]

I havent installed the cams. From the research I have done, it appears unlikely that we can really extend the duration of the cams by very much, if any. So all that can really be done safely without major tuning is increasing the lift, which increases ramp velocities, which requires upgraded valve springs, which require an upgraded DCR or welded VVT.

I need to finish building the head since ive already got more than $3000 tied up in it.

I also doubt that the cams will do alot to a stock or near stock head since the stock valve/cam flow numbers are at least 20% higher than the head can flow and ~15% higher than the IM can flow.

I think head porting nets alot more performance than cams for this engine.

[JTMS3]

Here is what I hope to be the final update on John@TheShopCT. After almost 2 months I finally have an ECU that is stable again. After running into issues with the AP communicating with my car, John sent me the ECU-TEK cable finally and we were able to get my car back to a stock flash. After that communicating with the AP has been a breeze. With that said, everything seems to be running good on the current map. Based off the logs I have pulled so far, seems as though the stock FP does need an upgrade/replacement based off the pressure slightly dropping.

John has seemed to take care of me in the end, but really I can only attribute it to pressure that was kept on him by Smitty. Thanks again for all the input you guys have given me on this situation.

[jhershorin]

Now that you have an AP find a real tuner. Just my advice.

[smitty5788]

Glad you finally got it fixed. I knew the AP wouldn't work the way he said it would with his flash.

[JTMS3]

Yeah it didn't... he had to reflash it to a stock map with the ECU_TEK cable and then I was good to go.

[jhershorin]

So moral of the story - John lies, has horrid customer service, is a creepy looking little gnome, likes being on the receiving end of surprise butt seks, and isn't as versed of a "tuner" as he thought.

[spnkr21]

Lol Not sure which topic this thread is about but, when do you think the stock head will become a restriction? As far as intake runners. You said they were more restrictive than the intake manifold? What about the exhaust ports? So curious now...

[djuosnteisn]

IMO the head isn't that restrictive.


Exh ports are 1.5" diameter, right? I'm pretty sure they are.

Area of 1.5" diameter hole = 3.14 x 0.75^2 = 1.766 in^2

Multiply by 4 to get total exh port area for 4 cyl's = 7.065 in^2


Back calculate to figure out what equivalent radius (not diameter) piping would result in 7.065 square inches of are (for comparison sake). You get 3.14 x (r^2) = 7.065...... r = 1.5".

So diameter = 3".


So IMO... the exh ports will flow as much as a 3" pipe would... which is fairly significant.

I still think the most limiting factors at this time are probably intake mani... then throttle body. Assuming your already running a big turbo, big intake, and efficient intercooler.

[Nataphen]

I don't understand anything leading up to it, but I now know that our exhaust ports probably flow the equivalent of a 3" pipe, LOL. Thanks, Dustin.

[djuosnteisn]

It's probably ricer math... but just saying i haven't seen any reason to write the exh ports off as small or limiting quite yet.

[spnkr21]

So what about the intake runners?

[djuosnteisn]

Haven't looked at them in depth. I have a spare block sitting in my garage though, so i could snap a few photos if you want.



Long story short though.... only thing holding back most cars is their turbo selection and some balls lol. I mean cagey just now maxed out a 3.25" maf, which is pretty fucking awesome IMO.

[spnkr21]

Cool man. I was thinking you'd need more than a 3071 anyway, was just curious haha