Less boost after new wastegate?

[taf0422]

UPDATED POST 31!

Okay so this is really starting to bug me. I have all the mods in my sig but the turbosmart mbc is not hooked up. Running off the stock system. When I ran the stock wastegate I was told that it wasnt strong enough to hold off the boost so the best I could do was 18 psi up top. Well that didnt sit well with me so I bought a Forgewaste gate. I have every spring available. Green spring full preload cant get any more boost than 17 psi. Yellow spring is currently installed with little preload. I boost up to 23 psi then it gradually falls off to 17 psi. The blue spring with zero load makes the car hit boost cut almost instantly. And lets not talk about the red spring.

After numerous runs/map changes and talking to my tuner he says Im maxed out on boost uptop. Thanks to the wastegate being maxed again at 99%. anyone have any ideas on what I should do next? Hook up the mbc again? Add more preload to the wastegate? I tried to run stock wastegate with mbc and it would boost off fine but still wouldnt do any better than the stock boost controller.

Im also going to do a boost leak test to see if there is air bleeding off somewhere. I just dont believe that 17-18 psi is the best I can do with the new wastegate/turbo. Its giving me a huge headache.

When I get home I load up my most recent logs.

[Chimmike]

That is the best the turbo can do up top. Been known here for years, you should know this by now. Any k04 based turbo upgrade on this car can't hold boost up top.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by taf0422 Okay so this is really starting to bug me. I have all the mods in my sig but the turbosmart mbc is not hooked up. Running off the stock system. When I ran the stock wastegate I was told that it wasnt strong enough to hold off the boost so the best I could do was 18 psi up top. Well that didnt sit well with me so I bought a Forgewaste gate. I have every spring available. Green spring full preload cant get any more boost than 17 psi. Yellow spring is currently installed with little preload. I boost up to 23 psi then it gradually falls off to 17 psi. The blue spring with zero load makes the car hit boost cut almost instantly. And lets not talk about the red spring. After numerous runs/map changes and talking to my tuner he says Im maxed out on boost uptop. Thanks to the wastegate being maxed again at 99%. anyone have any ideas on what I should do next? Hook up the mbc again? Add more preload to the wastegate? I tried to run stock wastegate with mbc and it would boost off fine but still wouldnt do any better than the stock boost controller. Im also going to do a boost leak test to see if there is air bleeding off somewhere. I just dont believe that 17-18 psi is the best I can do with the new wastegate/turbo. Its giving me a huge headache. When I get home I load up my most recent logs.

I can hold 18psi with the stock turbo and wastegate from 3000 rpm to redline @ around 50 wgdc and the Grimmspeed 3 port in interrupt mode.

[taf0422]

The car has a super stock turbo. Does not have the stock turbo. Running basically the same step up as the new gtx turbo guts just in smaller form. It should be able to hold boost. I maxed stock wastegate with new turbo at 99% when we first started tuning.

Now with a new wastegate and trying to dial in it seems to head right back to that territory.

[RichieRichness]

Every car/turbo has slightly different results. It looks like your ready for BT if 17/18psi isn't good enough for you. I'd like to see a couple logs of yours if you don't mind. I too ran the Forge WGA and had the same results. I ended up going back to stock because the Forge was defective (the arm was getting scarred internally somehow) and was causing boost spikes.

[taf0422]

Absolutely! I will be uploaded the most recent logs when I get home around 5 tonight.

I wanted to see what this new prototype turbo could do. I just want to be able to hold 20 psi. Lol. Thats only 2 psi more!

And with it being the wastegate maxxed out makes me think the turbo should not be running out of steam

[XRJoe]

How is the preload on the arm?

[rfinkle2]

The number logged (wgdc) is a reflection of how hard you are driving the boost control solenoid.

[taf0422]

The forge wastegate has an adjustable arm. Make the arm shorter and pull the arm out putting tension (preload) on the spring.

Id definitely like for you guys to take a look at my logs

[Chimmike]

lmao. A post on 247 says the HT65 can flow 40lbs/min on a reasonable pressure ratio? LMAO. I hope they're just talking about the compresor wheel itself..............hahahaha.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...-Turbo-upgrade!

[XRJoe]

Just re-reading the OP it seems you did set pre-load...my bad.

Sounds like you need to use the blue spring, but drop your WGDC's until you can control the boost. I'd bring them down as far as possible and then tune up until you see your desired boost setting.

Also, a way to test the actuator is run a vacuum line from the can to a compressor and slowly bring the regulator up. You should be able to see what PSI the actuator cracks at and what pressure fully opens it. If the fully open pressure is more boost than you want to run, you know the spring is too stiff. Say if it cracks at 7psi and is fully open by 15psi, you should be able to easily hit OEM boost targets by adjusting the WGDC down.

Take this 2nd piece of advice FWIW as I'm not terribly familiar with the boost control on these cars, but you can run manifold pressure to the wastegate, bypassing the BCS after you verify it opens at a safe level. Throw the MBC in line and tune from there. I just feel you'll be missing a lot of tuning resolution when you take the BCS out and the ability to tune duty cycle.

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by chimmike lmao. A post on 247 says the HT65 can flow 40lbs/min on a reasonable pressure ratio? LMAO. I hope they're just talking about the compresor wheel itself..............hahahaha. Akuma HT65 Stage 2 Turbo upgrade!!

I'm the guy that put up that information on 247. My other thread here had some issues (water under the bridge) I wrote up the document but akuma made some changes to it with some of the technical information that I didn't know off the top of my head. But the turbo had to be machined out to fit the new wheels inside of the turbo. It was originally supposed to have a bigger compressor wheel but it would not have been as efficient as the wheel they put into the turbo.

Originally Posted by XRJoe Just re-reading the OP it seems you did set pre-load...my bad. Sounds like you need to use the blue spring, but drop your WGDC's until you can control the boost. I'd bring them down as far as possible and then tune up until you see your desired boost setting. Also, a way to test the actuator is run a vacuum line from the can to a compressor and slowly bring the regulator up. You should be able to see what PSI the actuator cracks at and what pressure fully opens it. If the fully open pressure is more boost than you want to run, you know the spring is too stiff. Say if it cracks at 7psi and is fully open by 15psi, you should be able to easily hit OEM boost targets by adjusting the WGDC down. Take this 2nd piece of advice FWIW as I'm not terribly familiar with the boost control on these cars, but you can run manifold pressure to the wastegate, bypassing the BCS after you verify it opens at a safe level. Throw the MBC in line and tune from there. I just feel you'll be missing a lot of tuning resolution when you take the BCS out and the ability to tune duty cycle.

I did have the blue spring in there before I switched to the yellow spring. Even when zero preload on the spring itself it still over boosted almost instantly. 23+ psi in no time. Right now with the yellow spring I had it fully preloaded and it did the same thing then turned it down to mid way between zero preload and full and I've been able to go full throttle without hitting the boost cut but now she bleeds off. I'm wondering if I preload a little more will I be able to hold the boost better?
I saw a couple of people that were having the same issue so they preloaded a little more and were able to get the boost to hold. I'm really hoping I don't have the change the spring again because its a PITA to get that damn e-clip off everytime I want to adjust the arm/unhook everything.

[taf0422]

Here are the logs from the current set up.

log 75 is 3rd gear run. Its about half way down the page.
log 76 is 3rd gear through 4th gear


Look what I just found in the coupler going from the turbo to the intercooler!! Found a massive leak

[taf0422]

So even after the leak was found, new logs were done and Im still maxing out the wastegate on logs. Right now I can run a peak of 23 psi falling off to about 18 psi.

Im thinking about loading up the wastegate a turn or two more to see if I can lower that amount a little bit bc using the blue spring made my car instantly overboost. Does anyone think throwing on the MBC would help lower the wastegate %. I just had an issue last time I was running the mbc. In lower gears boost was fine 1st-3rd but when I would start in 4th the car would overboost. Not sure why.

[RichieRichness]

If you ran MBC on the little KO4 you would have slower boost response which may help your overboosting issue. However, your prob not gonna be able to hit your boost targets in high RPM. I tried this when running the Forge WGA. Are you sure your WGA arm isn't damaged? Mine had deep grooves in the metal that was causing overboosting. I had to open the WGA and sand down the grooves.

[taf0422]

Thanks for the response. As far as i know the wastegate isnt overboosting. I just cant hold the boost I want because its maxed out. I hit the 22-23 psi its supposed to then she just slowly dies off to 18-17 psi. Dont get me wrong the car def moves. I just want to hold the amout of boost it is supposed to. Lol.

Im stubborn like that and Im not sure what else I can do...

[taf0422]

quick run in the car. 4th gear pull about 50-105, sorry about the pot hole that I couldn't avoid...

taken off the iphone

http://youtu.be/_IFpHQ1ll2c

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I can hold 18psi with the stock turbo and wastegate from 3000 rpm to redline @ around 50 wgdc and the Grimmspeed 3 port in interrupt mode.

I have the same setup and my WGDC are nearly maxed out from 5500+ to hold 17.5-18 psi. Wonder why you can achieve this so easily...

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 I have the same setup and my WGDC are nearly maxed out from 5500+ to hold 17.5-18 psi. Wonder why you can achieve this so easily...

I have seen wgdc a bit higher in the past, but have seen pretty low DC.

In the heat of summer, I've seen 70's etc.

My point was the Grimmspeed is superior to the factory bcs in every way.

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I have seen wgdc a bit higher in the past, but have seen pretty low DC. In the heat of summer, I've seen 70's etc. My point was the Grimmspeed is superior to the factory bcs in every way.

Hmm Maybe I should ditch my turbosmart boost controller for the grimmspeed one. Especially if you are confident that it will lower the wastegate down. Damn turbo....

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by taf0422 Hmm Maybe I should ditch my turbosmart boost controller for the grimmspeed one. Especially if you are confident that it will lower the wastegate down. Damn turbo....

IMO, EBCS > manual boost controller.

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 IMO, EBCS > manual boost controller.

John at Akuma isnt going to be real happy when I ask for a full retune on the car. Lol

We will see what he says...

[taf0422]

Bought the grimmspeed ebc!!

Still no word from Akuma on how he likes the plan. Lol

[taf0422]

New Grimmspeed boost controller is in!!!

Right now just in 2 port mode until I can get up to John for a retune for the 3 port mode but I also found out that I have a purge valve that went bad...awesome....

[taf0422]

Grimmspeed is on! New tune is in the works. Right now only using 30% wastegate and pushing the same boost levels

[taf0422]

New logs that I just did today. Just two 3rd gear pulls.

John, is currently working on the new tune. Decided to run her in 3port mode instead. Loving my PTP fuel internals. Still working strong after 40K miles!

[RichieRichness]

nice dude...yeah get that tune dialed in and update your AP and ATR so your logging rate improves.

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by RichieRichness nice dude...yeah get that tune dialed in and update your AP and ATR so your logging rate improves.

Thank you sir. I went ahead and updated everything. Still waiting for cobb to send me the new atr. I remember downloading the new one awhile back but things move fast with the updates so I probably missed one.

[taf0422]

well I adjusted the wastegate a little more. around 2.5 turns more and boost is a little higher than I want.

I can slow roll 3rd to full then shift into 4th and run 4th full out with no issue but boost is sitting at 23 psi and only falling to about 22 psi. lol. a little too much. I can't mash 3rd gear right now because it just breaks the tires loose.

If I just mash 4th it will boost cut around 4500 rpm because it tries to go over 23 psi but if I keep my foot into the car after the slight hiccup it will sit right at 22 psi again. So I think I'm going to take it down one turn on the waste gate and see what it does.

[Jackis]

How's going with Akuma turbo?

Our k04 compressor map... 22 psi is roughly 2.6. Far far from the efficiency

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by Jackis How's going with Akuma turbo? Our k04 compressor map... 22 psi is roughly 2.6. Far far from the efficiency

Okay guys, so I got tired of waiting for John to write me back with a revised map for my car. I think he is officially done with tuning it. After I proved him wrong about the EBC and the wastegate % went down to 35% he hasn't talked to me much. Also, since I'm buddies with one of the guys in the shop. I have heard that 2-3 guys have left him at this point. My buddies name is Evan and he actually uprooted to go to IAG. He is currently working for them now, does amazing work. Metal fabricator! but anyways...

Short version : new tune w/ atvfreek, stock wastegate, holding 22 psi all the way to redline.

Longer version : Got in touch with ATVFreek and he agreed to help me with a new map on my car. Sent him a few logs and he stated he couldn't control boost so I took off the pre-load on the wastegate, few more logs and still couldn't stop the 23psi spike/hold with 0%wastegate, so we agreed to take off the Forge Wastegate and put OEM on, still running the upgraded EBC. Did a run and car was holding 23 psi and trying for more. Definitely too much!!

I started to tune the car myself, started from an OTS map, stage 2+ cpe cai, inlet, upgraded intercooler. took me all day but I got enough of a base map to send over to ATVFreek to get started. Changed MAF, boost targets, AFR, upped the load, fueling targets, closed and open loop transitioning, LC and FFS, raised the idle up. Then I sent everything over to him. He started making revisions on the map...and oh man has it started to improve. Please keep in mind that we only started this yesterday and only two map revision so there is still a long way to go. We also until everything smooths out shut down the meth.

Right now he ramped up some of the boost targets early for a faster spool and changed some other various tables but right now the car is running 22-21 psi out to red line with no issue!! Also the boost doesn't come on like a bat out of hell. I was spiking to 23 psi almost instantly with Johns map. Even right now the car is much easier to drive and is holding 4-5 psi at red line.

Stay tuned for some more results!!