fmic?

[ashman72]

im about to get a synapse fmic for my gen 1 mazdaspeed 3 and I have an sure sri, tip, will I need the auto tech fuel pump internals. Im already gonna get the internals before I get a down pipe but I have a opportunity to get a great deal now for the fmic
should I baby the car till I get the internals?

[VulgarKyle]

Donate and search and read

[dale_gribble]

unless BT, Upgraded TMIC + Meth injection > FMIC

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble unless BT, Upgraded TMIC + Meth injection > FMIC

wtf are you doing?

comparing a cooler + a cooling and octane additive vs a cooler? you handitarded bro?

A properly made fmic kit for the gen one on the stock turbo yeilds no real negatives. I can show you dyno numbers, spool comparisons and logs if youd like.

God damn.

Edit,

Here,

RED is ETS top mount on a tune that LEX was working on for me with it.

BLUE is nothing different but the front mount instead, still running the tune he had previously been making for the ETS TMIC.

His revision for the change will be a few days away and ill post it then.

As it stands, you can see the boost curve is the same.

[Agent_Orange]

[mxlplx71]

Originally Posted by ashman72 im about to get a synapse fmic for my gen 1 mazdaspeed 3 and I have an sure sri, tip, will I need the auto tech fuel pump internals. Im already gonna get the internals before I get a down pipe but I have a opportunity to get a great deal now for the fmic should I baby the car till I get the internals?

you'll be fine with a fmic it will only help not heatsoak, cooler air ftw.

[cshunter]

Originally Posted by secondchance wtf are you doing? comparing a cooler + a cooling and octane additive vs a cooler? you handitarded bro? A properly made fmic kit for the gen one on the stock turbo yeilds no real negatives. I can show you dyno numbers, spool comparisons and logs if youd like. God damn. Edit, Here, RED is ETS top mount on a tune that LEX was working on for me with it. BLUE is nothing different but the front mount instead, still running the tune he had previously been making for the ETS TMIC. His revision for the change will be a few days away and ill post it then. As it stands, you can see the boost curve is the same.

I wont speak for him, but I am pretty sure that he is not.

I would assume also, that he is not saying a fmic will not get you gains, or be a downgrade of a sort.

TMIC + Meth = Greater gains then just a FMIC. Also that combo will cost less then most FMIC.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by secondchance wtf are you doing? comparing a cooler + a cooling and octane additive vs a cooler? you handitarded bro?

I considered debating this with you but I am not going to drop knowledge on some brownies thread. I have the experience/experiments to support my claim.

I do know that I spent less than you did on your UR FMIC than I did for my TMIC + WMI kit and picked up way more power than you ever will with your FMIC. I wish someone would have told me TMIC + WMI from the get go. I learned that shit the hard way after my FMIC experiments. FMIC gains were minimal on my car. I picked up a clean and reliable 30HP with WMI not to mention some of the intrinsic benefits of WMI in a direct injection car.

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I considered debating this with you but I am not going to drop knowledge on some brownies thread. I have the experience/experiments to support my claim. I do know that I spent less than you did on your UR FMIC than I did for my TMIC + WMI kit and picked up way more power than you ever will with your FMIC. I wish someone would have told me TMIC + WMI from the get go. I learned that shit the hard way after my FMIC experiments. FMIC gains were minimal on my car. I picked up a clean and reliable 30HP with WMI not to mention some of the intrinsic benefits of WMI in a direct injection car.

OP has made no mention of having a way to tune for meth, nor the interest in running it. Personally, I have no interest in running meth at this time so I built an FMIC. When you go with meth you may as well just keep the stock tmic and crank shit up.

Meth aside, fmic>>tmic imo, especially in hot climates. adding meth makes the whole story different.

OP, run the damn thing. you won't get the most of it without a tune but better cooling is better cooling.

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I considered debating this with you but I am not going to drop knowledge on some brownies thread. I have the experience/experiments to support my claim. I do know that I spent less than you did on your UR FMIC than I did for my TMIC + WMI kit and picked up way more power than you ever will with your FMIC. I wish someone would have told me TMIC + WMI from the get go. I learned that shit the hard way after my FMIC experiments. FMIC gains were minimal on my car. I picked up a clean and reliable 30HP with WMI not to mention some of the intrinsic benefits of WMI in a direct injection car.

wait, so youre telling me you gained power when you added in methanol, something known to jump octane levels and used around the world as a way to tune in more power through boost and timing? NO WAIII DUDE.... who knew right?

You missed the fucking point derp. Again.

AS i showed, when comparing the top mount to a front mount on the stock turbo, when the front mount is a notable system developed for the car, the difference in power, lag, boost and otherwise is literally nothing. What you gain is cooler air, no heat soak, and intake temps that drop 50 times faster going from a stand still to motion.

But youre the "expert" lol.

[dale_gribble]

Don't strike out at me because you spent $900 for minimal performance gains and the headache of constantly checking 6 couplers for boost leaks. You drink milk out of bags so your argument is irrelevant.

This is what milk containers are supposed to look like FYI

[secondchance]

Actually I spent 700$ on the front mount. The gets top mount was 565 so the cost difference is incredibly negligable at best.

The benefits as previously described, coupled with the bnr s3 I have on order made the switch a very easy one. Even if I stayed k04 I would have done it for the removal of heat soak and tremendously quick temp reductions on a hot day from standing still to moving.

But I guess you can justify spending 565 on the cooler then 400 on the meth kit then 250 on the tune to make the method work, when you seem to think copper charge air isn't needed on the stock turbo.

ROFL.

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Don't strike out at me because you spent $900 for minimal performance gains and the headache of constantly checking 6 couplers for boost leaks. You drink milk out of bags so your argument is irrelevant. This is what milk containers are supposed to look like FYI

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by secondchance copper charge air isn't needed on the stock turbo.

I don't think our cars do need copper charge air.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by secondchance Actually I spent 700$ on the front mount. The gets top mount was 565 so the cost difference is incredibly negligable at best. The benefits as previously described, coupled with the bnr s3 I have on order made the switch a very easy one. Even if I stayed k04 I would have done it for the removal of heat soak and tremendously quick temp reductions on a hot day from standing still to moving. But I guess you can justify spending 565 on the cooler then 400 on the meth kit then 250 on the tune to make the method work, when you seem to think copper charge air isn't needed on the stock turbo. ROFL.

CPE top mount- $400
DO stage 1- $200
Selftune/know people that tune- $0

Total $600 and bats that are ambient/sub-ambient as soon as you enter boost.

[mxlplx71]

a hundred ways to skin a cat.

to answer the op's question you don't need anything else to run a fmic.

after personally experiencing loss of power at the track and seeing others who couldn't run better than 15sec after heatsoaked topmounts, I will always take a fmic over the top.
I am adding meth to my fmic car.
I don't care personally about cost, i'm building mine for my
personal wants and goals just like everyone else.

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I don't think our cars do need copper charge air.

was on my cellphone dingus. Good job pointing out the one hole available.

Originally Posted by smoogs12 CPE top mount- $400 DO stage 1- $200 Selftune/know people that tune- $0 Total $600 and bats that are ambient/sub-ambient as soon as you enter boost.

cs top mount < ETS top mount

do stage one is junk. Run a worth while system or nothing.

self tune... lol.

Total, your car is a gong show.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by secondchance do stage one is junk. Run a worth while system or nothing.

So I guess @atvfreek; should listen to you? Afaik he runs a simple boost switch system (like do stage 1).

And just because you can't tune your car (or don't have any friends) doesn't mean it isn't a viable option to tune for free.

Furthermore, thank you for sharing your opinion on the CS top mount, but it is not the one I used in my example.

[El_Diablo]

I would much rather self tune & learn as I go than pay a couple hundred and remain a dumbass trying to push my "beliefs" about things that I can't back up.






No offense to the tuners on here. If I ever got to a point that I was lost I would certainly utilize their services. IMO, everyone should atleast try & know a little about the tuning process. While I've tuned other cars, direct injection does take some getting used to but its fairly simple when you get the basics down & then it's just fine tuning everything after that.

[ricknm]

how bout this.

If you can get a great deal on it, buy it then and just wait on the install until you get the internals.

Problem solved

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by secondchance was on my cellphone dingus. Good job pointing out the one hole available.

There's more holes in your logic then there are holes during a lesbian orgy on a golf course.

[sidekick]

Are you really trying to say a FMIC is superior to a TMIC+meth? GTFO.

[dale_gribble]

Here's a thing the tard doesn't understand. FMICs are not a complete win. For example, they block a significant amount of airflow to the radiator. This usually results in a 10-20F higher coolant temp on the highway. Most guys report 195-205F coolant temps after installing FMICs on the highway cruising. My FMIC was no exception.

I would say aftermarket TMICs BATs live between 90-130F on a 3rd or 4th gear pull on a hot summer day. I would say the FMIC BATs live between 85-120F on the same pull. Guess what? That BAT temp range puts the TMIC and FMIC in the same timing table. (Ignition Tables:Ign BAT vs ECT Comp). The FMIC doesn't afford any more timing than a good TMIC. However, since the FMIC coolant temp is higher, the FMIC is now reading from the 194+ F coolant cells and the TMIC is still reading from the 176-193F coolant cells which means the FMIC may cause the car to pull a little timing. So, it could very well be the TMIC has more timing than the FMIC. This is why an FMIC will not show any gains over a TMIC on a 3rd or 4th gear pull.

I buy the heat soak argument, sure, but as soon as you are cruising and pulling hard in 3rd or 4th, the benefit is minimum. The difference is I paid $395 for my TMIC and had $300 towards a WMI setup or another mod.

Case in point, here is my SU TMIC vs. the CS FMIC I used to have. No difference in VD.

[secondchance]

You are comparing a 3 inch top mount to a pos front mount that is only used in your application because of space restrictions, and the FMIC still shows no viable drop offs.

What tards like you dont understand, is air actually travels through the cores of a front mount, and is cooler for having done so. My coolant temps have shown no real changes at all, even after 45 minutes on the highway on a 90*F day.

Some of the benefits to a (again watch how shit it worded) properly designed front mount for our car(s) are as follows.

1. Removing the core from the top of the engine greatly reduces the heat soak that perpetuates over time.

2. The rate at which the intake temps drop from standing still or near it, to 50+ ambient or lower is much faster.

3. Visually, the car looks much more aggressive.

4. Logs into VD show on the same tunes, the car yield more low end torque.

5. The myth of lag and boost loss are nothing more then that, myths. Losing .5 PSI throughout the log for colder/denser/safer charge air is something im more then willing to accept, as most would be.

There is more, but my gum just ran out of flavor. God damn trident layers.

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Here's a thing the tard doesn't understand. FMICs are not a complete win. For example, they block a significant amount of airflow to the radiator. This usually results in a 10-20F higher coolant temp on the highway. Most guys report 195-205F coolant temps after installing FMICs on the highway cruising. My FMIC was no exception. I would say aftermarket TMICs BATs live between 90-130F on a 3rd or 4th gear pull on a hot summer day. I would say the FMIC BATs live between 85-120F on the same pull. Guess what? That BAT temp range puts the TMIC and FMIC in the same timing table. (Ignition Tables:Ign BAT vs ECT Comp). The FMIC doesn't afford any more timing than a good TMIC. However, since the FMIC coolant temp is higher, the FMIC is now reading from the 194+ F coolant cells and the TMIC is still reading from the 176-193F coolant cells which means the FMIC may cause the car to pull a little timing. So, it could very well be the TMIC has more timing than the FMIC. This is why an FMIC will not show any gains over a TMIC on a 3rd or 4th gear pull. I buy the heat soak argument, sure, but as soon as you are cruising and pulling hard in 3rd or 4th, the benefit is minimum. The difference is I paid $395 for my TMIC and had $300 towards a WMI setup or another mod. Case in point, here is my SU TMIC vs. the CS FMIC I used to have. No difference in VD.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by secondchance What tards like you dont understand, is air actually travels through the cores of a front mount, and is cooler for having done so. My coolant temps have shown no real changes at all, even after 45 minutes on the highway on a 90*F day.

Did you really just say that?




Basically what you just said is that the ambient air is being cooled by your intercooler as it passes through. This would mean that the intercooler would be transfering heat INTO the charged air. You're the retard and its time to sit back and shut up.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Did you really just say that? Basically what you just said is that the ambient air is being cooled by your intercooler as it passes through. This would mean that the intercooler would be transfering heat INTO the charged air. You're the retard and its time to sit back and shut up.

Rofl! That is exactly what he said. I rest my case. If I had a mic and a stage, I would drop the mic off the stage and walk off right now.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by secondchance 3. Visually, the car looks much more aggressive. 4. Logs into VD show on the same tunes, the car yield more low end torque.

#3 = ricer math.

#4 - VD is only accurate within about +/- 10whp/wtq. Your runs are within that discrepancy.


If you are only comparing a FMIC to a TMIC, then a FMIC maybe be SLIGHTLY better. A TMIC can look stock(CA smog) and perform almost as well as a FMIC, with a much lower chance of boost leaks and for about half the price. With the money saved you can purchase a WMI kit and the gains will be quite a bit more significant than a FMIC alone. Not to mention heatsoak doesn't really matter with WMI.

[secondchance]

Clearly you are this other idiot has the same 2 fathers.

Leave it to the lifelong mazda kids to have no fucking slue how the air that has gone through the fins of a front mount reacts.

you rere's actually think that all the air is deflected? Man how do all those high horse power, front mount, stock radiator evos, gtrs, silvias, and so on manage to cool their coolant.

Fucking stupid is as stupid is.

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Did you really just say that? Basically what you just said is that the ambient air is being cooled by your intercooler as it passes through. This would mean that the intercooler would be transfering heat INTO the charged air. You're the retard and its time to sit back and shut up.

[dale_gribble]

Dude, you lost when you said ambient air passing across the FMIC is cooler going out then when it comes in.

I do like how you came into call properly designed factory fmic setups to your defense of an aftermarket kit going onto a car originally designed with a tmic. Based on your argument, your car was properly designed with a tmic just the same as theirs was for a fmic. Therefore you just argued that a tmic is better on your car. You are just fighting yourself now.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Dude, you lost when you said ambient air passing across the FMIC is cooler going out then when it comes in. I do like how you came into call properly designed factory fmic setups to your defense of an aftermarket kit going onto a car originally designed with a tmic. Based on your argument, your car was properly designed with a tmic just the same as theirs was for a fmic. Therefore you just argued that a tmic is better on your car. You are just fighting yourself now.

[Sobe]

Originally Posted by secondchance Clearly you are this other idiot has the same 2 fathers. Leave it to the lifelong mazda kids to have no fucking slue how the air that has gone through the fins of a front mount reacts. you rere's actually think that all the air is deflected? Man how do all those high horse power, front mount, stock radiator evos, gtrs, silvias, and so on manage to cool their coolant. Fucking stupid is as stupid is.

After a long day at work, I really appreciate this laugh.

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Dude, you lost when you said ambient air passing across the FMIC is cooler going out then when it comes in. I do like how you came into call properly designed factory fmic setups to your defense of an aftermarket kit going onto a car originally designed with a tmic. Based on your argument, your car was properly designed with a tmic just the same as theirs was for a fmic. Therefore you just argued that a tmic is better on your car. You are just fighting yourself now.

Nailed it.

The guy had two SRT4's for crying out loud. He clearly knows more than we do.

[secondchance]

You are attempting to conclude that because the car came from the factory with the cheaper top mount solution to its cooling needs, that it was infact originally designed for it? LOL

But i'll leave you with this, if the front mount offers all these negatives as you claim, then why would the arguably most involved and respected aftermarket parts manufactuer for our platform make a front mount, and not a top mount after market option? The very front mount that has been shown to time and time again out perform both the stock and aftermarket top mounts in literally everything that consists of a one and done pass on the highway?!

Lol, nerd makes fun of srt-4's, while owning a mazda. Bravo

Originally Posted by Sobe After a long day at work, I really appreciate this laugh. Nailed it. The guy had two SRT4's for crying out loud. He clearly knows more than we do.

[Sobe]

Originally Posted by secondchance You are attempting to conclude that because the car came from the factory with the cheaper top mount solution to its cooling needs, that it was infact originally designed for it? LOL But i'll leave you with this, if the front mount offers all these negatives as you claim, then why would the arguably most involved and respected aftermarket parts manufactuer for our platform make a front mount, and not a top mount after market option? The very front mount that has been shown to time and time again out perform both the stock and aftermarket top mounts in literally everything that consists of a one and done pass on the highway?! Lol, nerd makes fun of srt-4's, while owning a mazda. Bravo

You're absolutely right, I am a nerd.

The implication is that as a former SRT-4 owner that you do not have much of a leg to stand on.

Your responses only help the argument against you.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by secondchance Fucking stupid is as stupid is.

The line is "stupid is as stupid does".



You also seem to have conveniently dismissed the meth+tmic=win part of this argument.

It simply cannot be argued, that at wot, a tmic with meth will cool better/yeild more power than a fmic alone.


Also, those high hp Silvia's probably use v mount setups.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by secondchance Clearly you are this other idiot has the same 2 fathers. Leave it to the lifelong mazda kids to have no fucking slue how the air that has gone through the fins of a front mount reacts. you rere's actually think that all the air is deflected? Man how do all those high horse power, front mount, stock radiator evos, gtrs, silvias, and so on manage to cool their coolant. Fucking stupid is as stupid is.

Air will go through a FMIC, there is no debating that. Since YOU brought it up, yes, there is some deflection as some air is forced around the FMIC but thats nowhere near what you said.

Basically in your ricer head you stated that if you get a FMIC your radiator will receive cooler air. Your ricer logic doesn't belong here and is nowhere near a truth let alone a fact.

And how the hell am I a lifelong Mazda guy? I'm currently building a twin turbo mustang that I'm hoping will get me into the 200mph standing mile club. The car will use a custom designed (by me) and built intercooler core . It is essentially a street legal car that I will be taking on the hot rod power tour so a good cooling system is a must. These aren't exactly my first turbo cars.

[sidekick]

You know how I know these cars were originally designed to have a top mount? Because they have one.

That was a stupid arguement.

[secondchance]

fuck its truly too easy to troll over zelos fgts on these forums.

No kidding the car was designed for a top mount you mook.

At anyrate though, going front mount as an alternative to top mount has its advantages and disadvantages, just like an after market top mount has.

I went front mount after an am top mount to see the difference, and as part of me building to a big turbo build.

For a daily driver, both work fine.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by secondchance fuck its truly too easy to troll over zelos fgts on these forums

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by smoogs12

gotem.

Rofl.

If you want, i can kindly show you how the laws of physics ruin the claim that a front mount blocks rad air.

Look up engine bay pressure, and how having a positive pressure pushing from the rear (having the top mount vents open flowing) actually allows more air to pass through the IC/RAD as there is less pressure in the bay itself pushing back against the air travelling through it.

While it may not make up for the entire loss, you need to consider all factor in shit like this, its been tested and re tested a hundred times on the evo and suby forums.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by secondchance gotem. Rofl. If you want, i can kindly show you how the laws of physics ruin the claim that a front mount blocks rad air. Look up engine bay pressure, and how having a positive pressure pushing from the rear (having the top mount vents open flowing) actually allows more air to pass through the IC/RAD as there is less pressure in the bay itself pushing back against the air travelling through it. While it may not make up for the entire loss, you need to consider all factor in shit like this, its been tested and re tested a hundred times on the evo and suby forums.

So now youre not trolling? Make up your mind.


In the event that everything that you are saying isnt just conjecture; then yes, please school me on some physics.

[sidekick]

So, you're saying putting a large, dense object directly in front of the radiator is not going to affect air flow to the radiator? Do you also live in fantasy land?