DD guys need opinions

[GroceryGtr]

I've been pouring through threads and spec sheets on all the different turbos out there. And while its fairly clear as far as expected hp results, what I haven't been able to find is a lot of info on the real world driving characteristics of different turbos. I'm building my 6 as a DD, so my main focus is a turbo that functions well in the 2k-4k neighborhood as this will be the primary area that I'll see during my daily commute. That isn't to say I won't get on it and be up at the top of the rpm band, but I'm more concerned about a turbo's lag than I am what it flows at 5500 rpms. Since DD life involved a lot of merging, passing, and stop and go I'd like something with some bottom end torque to get up and go and make that daily grind a fun drive back and forth.

Build:
*Forged engine - Manley Hs & SP63s(stock bore/comp)
*VCTS delete & egr delete
*Autotech internals
*MS CAI with TIP
*Cobb AP v3 - Freak Tuned
*catless DP - both cats gone
*Grimspeed EBC - interrupt mode

From what I've found the BNR S3 is the most prevalent, but I noticed a lot of talk about the increased lag. Same on the ATP GTX30s. I couldn't find a lot of info on the bnr s2, but that sounded like an option though I'm wondering if the performance increase over the k04 would merit the $900 price tag. The corksport seemed a little price for performance promises, but again I couldn't find a lot of numbers. So I'd like some input from those of you that use your cars primarily for the daily commute and your opinions on turbos you've had.

[Code Monkey]

EFR 7163

[anavrinIV]

s2 doesn't exist anymore, it's s3 or s4.

When I had the GT3071 it was fine to daily...need to merge? Drop a gear. Simple. You can't expect to just mash the gas and have it go as well, but it's not bad.

Why build the engine? Does it need it anyway?

[GroceryGtr]

Bought it with a blown engine and figured for a few hundred more I could build it for reliability and never have to worry about it popping again...

[robbspeed]

Rpm sells the s2. I don't know how, I guess there's a few out there still.
BNR Stage 2 Turbocharger for Mazdaspeed 3 / 6 #BNR-MZ2 - Revolution Performance Motorsports!

[Poohster]

I had some work done to my MS6 recently. I am mostly a DD commuter and barely get into boost but I like every now and then to punch it. I went with GTX2867r. There is GTX2871r as well. These options seem to be pricey considering you were looking at BNRs which are great turbos for the money.

Just a thought. G/L

[Boost_creep]

I've been daily driving my gtx3071 for 2 years, with no complaints at all. The spool is only slightly slower than the k04, and after a few months, you'll forget how quick the k04 spooled and it'll feel perfectly normal. Excellent top end as well

[Vader]

Originally Posted by Boost_creep I've been daily driving my gtx3071 for 2 years, with no complaints at all. The spool is only slightly slower than the k04, and after a few months, you'll forget how quick the k04 spooled and it'll feel perfectly normal. Excellent top end as well

This x1000


Do you have a power goal?

Wanting a good turbo for DD, I understand. But trust me, you will want more eventually, everyone does.

The GTX3071 is a great DD turbo.

That being said, I have been running an EWG GTX3071 for 3 years, between 380WHP, and now with my current setup at ~440WHP.

I stand by my assertion when I first got it, that it is the perfect turbo for this motor. All I see now is BNR this, and Corksport that, but do not discount the GTX3071.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Vader This x1000 Do you have a power goal? Wanting a good turbo for DD, I understand. But trust me, you will want more eventually, everyone does. The GTX3071 is a great DD turbo. That being said, I have been running an EWG GTX3071 for 3 years, between 380WHP, and now with my current setup at ~440WHP. I stand by my assertion when I first got it, that it is the perfect turbo for this motor. All I see now is BNR this, and Corksport that, but do not discount the GTX3071.

I wish I had gone with the 3071, the 3076 is laggy under 3700rpm.

[Cheapspeed]

With AWD and built motor I'd opt for quick spool down low. S3 or 2867 would be good for that. Or stick with a k04 and add meth. My 3076 sleeps below 3700 rpm and makes slow traffic hard to be aggressive in.

[sheston]

I agree with @Cheapspeed; I love low end punch. Wish I had AWD so I could enjoy it more. You can actually make the K04 run fairly well. I have to limit load in the first three gears just to get traction.

You could mod with the K04, and when it blows move up after finishing your research :-)

[Easter Bunny]

Corksport turbo Bnr s3 or 28xx. They are all pretty similar in size and are what the car should have some from the factory with.

[GroceryGtr]

I looked at the cork sport, but their description/info is more marketing then hard fact and numbers. The 18gs were a little laggy on dsms(only experience I have wth them), but MZRs have more displacement and the benefit of newer technologies so I'm wondering if that would get the spool rates back down to where I would like. If I didn't have a wife to explain purchase decisions to id just get an EFR and have the best of both worlds.

[Easter Bunny]

i suggest you read on here about the corksport and BNR s3. they are what you are looking for and there is plenty of info on this website spelling out the results.

[GEE1989]

I have a corksport and love it. From what I've noticed it seems the corksport spools a little later than the bnr s3 but seems to hold better a little higher up in the rpms. It still spools fast though. Lots of info and videos on them. Not so much corksport but the bnrs there are

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[speedfreak44]

For bnrs2 info find my maxed k04 thread. Its a ms3 but info is info

It spools almost identical to the k04 but produces a good 50-60whp bump at redline

[mxlplx71]

i had the bnr s2 on my speed 3 360 hp and a 3076 on my ms6 400 awhp.
i would go with the s2 or cs turbo. although the 3076 really wasnt too bad to daily in the 6

[speedfreak44]

The s2 is an underated option in my opinion but I also think the s3 with the wga adjusted will give plenty of low end grunt. Judging by your title though the s2 would probably fit the bill. The cs turbo seems to be slightly slower at spool vs the bnr options

[tytanium]

loving my 2871r for DD. good spool, nice and quick. id so with s3, corksport, or 2871

[speedfreak44]

My s2 (in a ms3) has proven fast enough to beat a new 5.0 auto from a roll. Don't underestimate the little guy! Ms6 though probably would benefit from the gtx28 flow

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 My s2 (in a ms3) has proven fast enough to beat a new 5.0 auto from a roll. Don't underestimate the little guy! Ms6 though probably would benefit from the gtx28 flow

Aka ms6 are slow

[MD1032]

I would get the BNR S1 and skip the VTCS delete. All VTCS delete is going to do on a car with such a small turbo is make cold starts and idling shitty.

I have an S3 on my DD and it's definitely a solid option, but you do have to be mindful about downshifting at times if you really want full power. Generally speaking it has plenty of low end grunt though...mine provides full boost as early as 3100 RPM's most days. I would go a hair smaller, maybe S1 or S2 if I had to do it over again. Nothing beats flooring it at 3000 RPM and getting punched in the face IMO.

[speedfreak44]

Skip the s1 completely. Its a new chra but stock exhaust and compressor housing. Hardly any upgrade. My s2 has difficulty holding 21psi at redline so I would bet the s1 would struggle to be much more than a nonsmoking k04

[Jrs7686]

Since we are getting opinions, is there a thing of too much power for a DD?

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 Since we are getting opinions, is there a thing of too much power for a DD?

yes and no.

I wouldn't say there's a thing as "too much power" but the path to get there can definitely wreck a DD by making all that power effectively unusable.

[Jrs7686]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV yes and no. I wouldn't say there's a thing as "too much power" but the path to get there can definitely wreck a DD by making all that power effectively unusable.

is this experience talking(your own)? if so, what would you have done different?

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 is this experience talking(your own)? if so, what would you have done different?

Not really. On my gen1 I had a GT3071 and it was okay for daily driving. Spool definitely took longer but but was usable enough to get around quickly even in city driving...the low gearing in 1/2 make that possible and a downshift on the highway brought everything to life there.

Much bigger than that though and I'd have a hard time recommending it. Not that it can't be done but you have to live with very high RPM to get much power out of it which isn't the best situation to be in for a daily.

I hear a lot of good things about the 7163

[mituc]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV Much bigger than that though and I'd have a hard time recommending it. Not that it can't be done but you have to live with very high RPM to get much power out of it which isn't the best situation to be in for a daily. I hear a lot of good things about the 7163

These are good inputs, people that are going BT need to understand how the response and spool characteristics will affect the driveability of their modified cars.
And I can confirm what you're saying, even though I have the GTX version which spools a bit better but not by much, more like reacts a bit faster. Our cases apply to the FWD MS3 where a little retarded spool is desired to avoid wheel spin. In OPs case it's a MS6 so a bit better response is desired, but going too small will negatively compromise the top end. Probably an S3 will be ok-ish as well as a GTX28, but with a built block and other supporting mods the 7163 kit sounds like the best in all areas.

[fasteddie128]

I find the bnr s3 to be perfect for daily driving. It spools similar to the ko4 and pulls hard up top instead of falling on its face after 5k. Now if you want to stick with something stock k04/bnr s1 style this new offering seems like a great option to me. Less money and supposedly fixes the seal issue the stock k04 has.

FTG K04-882 OEM Replacement Turbo for Mazdaspeed 3 / 6 / CX-7 #FTG-K0422882C - Revolution Performance Motorsports!

[Cheapspeed]

More torque down low is better for a DD to an extent. I don't mind the laggy 3076 too much because most of my time is spent on the highway. If I did mostly city driving or had AWD I wouldn't have opted for the great top end.

[mituc]

I am DDing a GTX3071 but that's on a MS3. On a MS6 you may need quicker response so a GTX2871 or 2971 may be more appropriate. A BNR S3 should also be an option as well as the CS turbo (which has the characteristics of a GT3071 as far as I could see so far).

Depending on what kind of response you need and how much you're actually interested in how the turbo will perform above 5500rpm you can go even smaller, like GTX2867. The peak torque should be about the same for these turbos just that you'll be shifting that torque curve left or right depending on how small/big the turbine is, assuming that the compressor will be about the same. Since you're forged I guess torque and the peak torque RPM is not a concern.

Some guy on a local forum is set on response, so his aim is to get a Borg Warner 6258 working in a MS6. I'm not sure if it can be a direct bolt on and personally I believe it's too small and too responsive, but still an option over the factory turbo.

[broda]

The popular consensus lately is to just go EFR7153 and have the best of both worlds. More pricey but it hits all the checkpoints.

[Jrs7686]

Originally Posted by broda The popular consensus lately is to just go EFR7153 and have the best of both worlds. More pricey but it hits all the checkpoints.

do you need the whole package(turbo kit) to get those performance numbers or will you see performance just as a bolt-on type application?


so i guess i can't read well: i'm referring to this just the turbo: BorgWarner EFR 7163 Turbo - Full-Race.com

vs. this the turbo kit:

Mazdaspeed EFR Turbo Kit (2.3 DISI MZR) - Full-Race.com

[broda]

The essentials is the one from Edge Autosport which consists of the manifold, turbo and downpipe. The manifold is T25 so its the only one, also the turbo is a lot longer so it needs its own downpipe for fitment purposes.

Edit: http://edgeautosport.com/full-race-b...d-3-2007-2013/

[Jrs7686]

Originally Posted by broda The essentials is the one from Edge Autosport which consists of the manifold, turbo and downpipe. The manifold is T25 so its the only one, also the turbo is a lot longer so it needs its own downpipe for fitment purposes. Edit: Full Race BorgWarner EFR Turbo Kit Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013

I understand better now thanks

[Jrs7686]

Originally Posted by broda The essentials is the one from Edge Autosport which consists of the manifold, turbo and downpipe. The manifold is T25 so its the only one, also the turbo is a lot longer so it needs its own downpipe for fitment purposes. Edit: Full Race BorgWarner EFR Turbo Kit Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013

That is a whole lot of $ for turbo upgrade

[broda]

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 That is a whole lot of $ for turbo upgrade

To be fair it's not that much more than you'd spend on a new turbo setup with a Garrett.

Downpipe: $500
EWG Housing GTX30: $1850
EWG + Dump Tube = $~350
CP-E manifold = $900
-----------------------------
Total = $3600

I'm just assuming new, high quality parts so it's more apples to apples than getting cheap stuff off eBay. So for about $500 you can get the EFR7153 which IMO is entirely worth it.

[Jrs7686]

Originally Posted by broda To be fair it's not that much more than you'd spend on a new turbo setup with a Garrett. Downpipe: $500 EWG Housing GTX30: $1850 EWG + Dump Tube = $~350 CP-E manifold = $900 ----------------------------- Total = $3600 I'm just assuming new, high quality parts so it's more apples to apples than getting cheap stuff off eBay. So for about $500 you can get the EFR7153 which IMO is entirely worth it.

Yeah, I was just counting upgrading the turbo, vs getting the whole kit. If you pick EGR 7163 turbo you are forced to get the whole kit(from what I understand). Versus pick up a Corksport turbo, all you need is just the turbo to bolt right on. If you already have upgraded dp, and/or manifold, you don't NEED replace those parts(assuming it is simular to stock),

I agree 100% with you, apples to apples you get a better product that costs little more than the Garrett setup(kit for kit).