Custom turbo lines

[-cj-]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to find out more information on any lines hooking up to our stock turbo. I've got a GT3076r that I need to fabricate some oil/coolant hoses for and I'm not exactly sure where to start. Is it best to pick up the OEM ones and modify them, or find something better and modify that?? What are you guys using? I don't want to touch my existing lines since I need the car to be stockable on a moment's notice....

If someone's already covered this, direct me to the proper thread... I couldn't find anything.

[madvillain]

The stock coolant lines are fully useable. To me, for the oil lines its honestly easier to have some made or buy some aftermarket ones.

I messed with all this for a few weeks recenty, so if you need any other help feel free to PM me. I will say that although ATP sucks, they have the best selection of this stuff. Luckily I have an awesome machine shop close to me that took care of everything so I didn't have to order from ATP

Picking up an extra stock oil feed and oil return would definitely help. I had my oil feed line cut about 6" in from where it attaches to the block behind the alternator and a male -4an fitting put on the end, because you have to use the stock banjo fitting that attaches to the block. Then I had a -4an female-female SS braided hose made, about 16" long to make sure I had plenty of room without kinking it. Then you'll need a 0.035 oil restrictor fitting for the turbo (assuming you're running a ball-bearing gt30) which are easy to find. I believe the fitting on that turbo for the oil feed is a 1/8" NPT, but don't quote me on that. If so, then you can get a 1/8" NPT male to -4an male fitting WITH a 0.035 restrictor in it, and you're done.

As for the oil return, it's going to be easiest to get one of the plates that Garrett sells with the -10an male on it, this way you can just buy a -10an hose (~10" long) and using the stock return line end that bolts to the block with a -10an male welded on the end of it.

[Fobio]

-cj-...if you know exactly what lines & specs you need, DTC can make them for you.

I'll try to dig out my extra turbo for you, but it's at the bottom of the pile and not a priority at the point.

[-cj-]

madvillain: GREAT info, thx! I haven't seen what the stock lines look like at all yet, how do the coolant lines hookup? Do I need another fitting from Garrett?

I'm going to dig through the service manual and see if there's a pic of all the lines, just so I can at least get a visual on it before shit comes off the car... Trying to have everything ready ahead of time.


Fobio: Thx! If I pick up the oem lines, I probably will be okay without seeing the turbo.. I'll be at Jimmy's tomorrow and will see what he knows.

[madvillain]

Fuck, I fail. I meant ATP! hahahah I'll edit my original post. Im a dumbass.

I know of some pics in SSinstaller's thread towards the end of new oil lines, which can be found here:
Two Steps Forward One Step Back

But.. First off the two coolant lines and the two oil lines on the stock turbo are just set up as passages, the cartridge of the turbo is basically square, so one out of each side. Thats the way I think of it at least. Three of which are banjo bolts, the last is the flange for the oil return line.

The two coolant hard line banjo bolts look like the red/copper bolt thats in the middle of this picture on the stock turbo, both lines look the same pretty much.



As I said, I reused these two banjo fittings for the coolant lines as well as the same soft lines that connect to the main coolant line without any problems. They bolted right up.


Now, for the oil feed line, the banjo fitting for the oil feed basically looks the same as the coolant fittings (I can't find a pic of it, but I will dig through the garage tonight and find it if need be). On the stock turbo, it bolts up as a banjo fitting as well, so the stock line is banjo-banjo, both exactly the same on either side. I cut mine about 6" from one end and had a -4an male fitting welded on.

The oil feed line bolts to the block BEHIND the alternator, it is most certainly my most hated bolt on this entire car. It is the shittiest spot ever, you have to remove the belt and alternator to get to it.

Here's a pic of the stock hard line:


You can see why you need ~6" from the banjo fitting, there is very little clearance between the block and alternator, there wouldn't be room to bolt the alternator down if the fitting to the braided line was in the way.



Then you just need a braided line, -4an female for that line to the restrictor fitting.

You can pick something like this up, easy to find with a 0.035 restrictor in it:




The flared end is the -4an, and can connect to the braided line, the other bolts right into the turbo. Oil feed done.




For the oil return, you need one of these, which will bolt to the turbo.


Thats a -10an (5/8"), what most turbo manufacturer will recommend for oil return lines. You have to have the correct flange to bolt to the block, so this is where a stock line would come in handy, like what SS did, and I plan to do in the near future.

Heres his -10an welded on the block-side of the stock return fitting:




Heres what it looks like as a whole, you can see the stock flange on one end and the aftermarket on the other end for the turbo, like i posted above.



and heres what the other side looks like when bolted to the block: (this is really easy to get to on an ms3, its right above the front axle.




Then you should be golden...

[-cj-]

Dude, you just saved me a TON of trouble... I wish I could thank you multiple times. Off to do some online shopping.......

[Fagwagon]

i just cut the stocker and used some silicone hose with clamps, seems to be working fine.

[madvillain]

Haha no problem man, I really wish I would have had some pointers for my noob ass before I dove into all of it. The key, for me, was finding a fucking awesome machine shop to make all of my shit in exchange for lunch money.

I have to disagree with Fag's statement though. Once you get this far, I personally strongly believe in doing it right. You will NOT want to get back in there and tear shit back apart a second time IF something goes wrong, not saying it will, but all that is highly pressurized (trust me on that) and I wouldn't trust hose clamps with it. For very little to no extra cost, for me at least, I wanted to do it right the first time once I figured it all out.

You can see that of all the pictures I posted above of SSinstallers, a few of them are using clamps, and a few are with new fittings/lines. If I remember correctly, the clamps were used in his first setup, which he had problems with. He then tore it down and re did it with the hose -an fittings.

If you have any other questions though on small shit or anything just PM me cj, like I said, and I'll subscribe to this thread too.

[06Speed6]

I am going to run two an-10 o-ring flange fittings and ~4" of SS braid hose with two 45* fittings. It fits almost perfect but you have to run crimped fittings on the hose because there isnt enough space for hose... the nuts on the reusable ones litterally hit each other.

FYI that flange fitting doesnt really work, the bolt holes are an oval shape and it is hard to get the fitting centered over the oil drain hole. Additionally it requires a metal gasket which is not included and costs an extra $7-10. At that point its alot easier to buy the Earl's fitting which is sealed with a leak proof o-ring which is included.

[madvillain]

I think I'm going to do something similar. Im using that blue silicone oil return line and it just sucks, its got a bit of a bend in it and I think it's kinking just a bit, I don't think it's getting the oil out fast enough. I will likely have my stock line chopped at the block end and a -10an fitting welded on like SS did that I posted above (3rd to last picture) and have a -10an braided hose made. I need to crawl under there and look at it all again this weekend.

[madvillain]

Hey man, I took some pictures for you today. Im having a new return line made, will probably pick it up wednesday. But here's the stock return line, which I had chopped at the end and a -10an male on the end of it. This piece will be bolting on to the block.

[-cj-]

Very nice!

I'm starting to think building this outside the car will be hard without flexible lines. I'll need to figure out all the angles once everything is mounted. I was hoping to have everything ready to go for my mechanic ahead of time :/

[-cj-]

I was taking a look at that oil return fitting over at Himni Racing, and they list that fitting as being for the Mazdaspeed3 oil return, engine side.. Is that right? They actually use a female version of that fitting for the turbo side. To me that seems strange... Ie: female fitting for something that liquid flows OUT of seems like a bad idea...?

(I think they mean as a replacement for what's already on the engine)

[madvillain]

Well, if it is a female you can just get a male to male attachment. For my turbo that is the only way it comes, so I had to do it in two pieces.

Mine looked like this one:


Then I used something like this to adapt:



This does make it a pain in the ass though, you have to make sure if you use that male to male that its TIGHT, so lots of locktite will help.

[-cj-]

How long would you say that the oil return and oil feed lines are, from block to stock turbo location? I picked up a 14" braided line for the oil return line, but I'm thinking it's way longer then necessary. Trying to avoid cutting them if I can... (I'm even going to try to avoid cutting the feed line, even though I know it's a tight fit...)

[dizzin9]

Originally Posted by -cj-

even though i have braided lines from the kit, i bought two of these and joined by a silicone hose.

[-cj-]

That's what I'm thinking about doing (except with SS braided lines)... Welding any lines will be my last resort. Any chance you know exactly how long the silicone hose is that you used? What did you use for the oil feed?

[dizzin9]

oil feed? u talking about the one on the top of the turbo? the hose is less than 1 ft long.

[-cj-]

Yup... Curious how long was the oil feed line (top of turbo) and how did you deal with the tight space by the alternator? Did you go with a 'hybrid' hacked OEM feed or did you completely replace the OEM feed line and flange? Also how long were those two lines (the oil in / out)? Trying to see if my 14" braided line is grossly large.....

[dizzin9]

i don't think u can replace that oil line. u pretty much have to use that and you are just supplied with a banjo bolt.

i messed it up when i was putting my mani and turbo together. i did the oil feed last and that sucker is hard to screw in once everything else is bolted. so i took everything out and hacked the oil line then put it on the turbo with the banjo bolt. after i put everything back together i patched the oil line with a 3/16 hose, i believe.

unless you mani is stock that braided oil out line is too long.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by madvillain You can see that of all the pictures I posted above of SSinstallers, a few of them are using clamps, and a few are with new fittings/lines. If I remember correctly, the clamps were used in his first setup, which he had problems with. He then tore it down and re did it with the hose -an fittings. If you have any other questions though on small shit or anything just PM me cj, like I said, and I'll subscribe to this thread too.

The line using the clamps is what was made by the shitty shop I picked to do my swap.. It leaked from both ends at the clamps, and was burning against my turbo manifold.. The line I made uses two full flow 45deg -10AN fittings and new stainless braided line, it has performend prefectly thus far.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I am going to run two an-10 o-ring flange fittings and ~4" of SS braid hose with two 45* fittings. It fits almost perfect but you have to run crimped fittings on the hose because there isnt enough space for hose... the nuts on the reusable ones litterally hit each other. FYI that flange fitting doesnt really work, the bolt holes are an oval shape and it is hard to get the fitting centered over the oil drain hole. Additionally it requires a metal gasket which is not included and costs an extra $7-10. At that point its alot easier to buy the Earl's fitting which is sealed with a leak proof o-ring which is included.

I used the reusable AN fittings, but I don't have the turbo in the OEM location so my return line is considerably longer.

I ordered that same return flange fitting from ATP, it came with an O-ring already installed on it, so there was no need for an additional metal gasket. I did the install with the turbo still on the car and didn't have any issues centering the flange on the turbo..

[-cj-]

I decided to just buy 3 feet of SS braided hose without the ends and will just make the line myself. Going to look for those weldable -4 AN ends now and I should be good!

Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

[06Speed6]

You have to use a banjo for the block end of the turbo oil feed, I believe it is a m10x1.5 thread size. I also probably needs to be steel because the alum ones are probably too thick.

[madvillain]

Originally Posted by -cj- I decided to just buy 3 feet of SS braided hose without the ends and will just make the line myself. Going to look for those weldable -4 AN ends now and I should be good! Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

That's the way to do it, honestly. I couldn't tell you how long my oil feed and return lines are, but it wouldn't matter. My turbo is not in the stock location anyways. When you get all your stuff start taking some measurements. If you're mounting your turbo in the stock location, you can pretty much base your new lines upon the stock ones in terms of lengths at least.

One thing that I will say though is that you want your oil return as short and unrestricted as possible. You want the shortest, straightest path and to do your best avoiding any sharper 90* turns. I'd assume this is true for all turbos at least, I know for my journal bearing Precision said it was crucial, but I'm also feeding it a lot more oil than what a ball-bearing gets.

[-cj-]

Just started getting all my pieces together, finally... Few more questions:

1) I'm having trouble throwing on an "AN" fitting onto my SS line... Am I supposed to strip an inch of SS braid and then stick on the fitting? I'm using one of these fittings:



I've tried screwing on the end piece and it just results in my stripping this little lip that's on the inside of the connector. I tried pushing it, but I can only go so far.... I must be doing something wrong?

2) I'm not using the stock location, I've heard about people's manifold's cracking due to the weight of the turbo. What can I use to brace the turbo? The turbo itself seems to have a few mounting holes for such applications?

3) One thing I overlooked was screws/bolts for a few of the turbo fittings. I'm hoping a visit to Home Depot will make this easy... Anyone know the typical bolt sizes for a GT3076r for the oil drain? I'm trying to avoid walking into Home Depot with my turbo in hand...

4) Finally, check this out... This is the flange I'm using. The gasket that was sent to me seems to be smaller ID then the flange itself. Do I have the wrong gasket or is this normal? I can't see how this would be normal, but wanted to get some input from you guys.



That little lip you see on the bottom of the flange is the actual gasket and the lip really is there, it isn't a camera angle thing.... I could draw the two on paper, but I think you guys get the idea.... Wrong gasket, right?

[-cj-]

Okay, I figured out the gasket issue. Apparently I need the "7cm" gasket instead of the one I have... $20 gasket, $60 shipping charge... Yay me.

[Fobio]

dude...my turbo is in Niagara now...trying to get it this Sat...

[-cj-]

Dude right on. My EWG is sitting with customs for some reason. SU shipped it out on the 25th and it's just been sitting there.... WTF.

Lemme know when it's in your hands! Hopefully I figure out how to attach an "AN" fitting to a SS hose by then lol.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by -cj- Just started getting all my pieces together, finally... Few more questions: 1) I'm having trouble throwing on an "AN" fitting onto my SS line... Am I supposed to strip an inch of SS braid and then stick on the fitting? I'm using one of these fittings: I've tried screwing on the end piece and it just results in my stripping this little lip that's on the inside of the connector. I tried pushing it, but I can only go so far.... I must be doing something wrong? 2) I'm not using the stock location, I've heard about people's manifold's cracking due to the weight of the turbo. What can I use to brace the turbo? The turbo itself seems to have a few mounting holes for such applications? 3) One thing I overlooked was screws/bolts for a few of the turbo fittings. I'm hoping a visit to Home Depot will make this easy... Anyone know the typical bolt sizes for a GT3076r for the oil drain? I'm trying to avoid walking into Home Depot with my turbo in hand... 4) Finally, check this out... This is the flange I'm using. The gasket that was sent to me seems to be smaller ID then the flange itself. Do I have the wrong gasket or is this normal? I can't see how this would be normal, but wanted to get some input from you guys. That little lip you see on the bottom of the flange is the actual gasket and the lip really is there, it isn't a camera angle thing.... I could draw the two on paper, but I think you guys get the idea.... Wrong gasket, right?

1) You do not remove any of the SS braiding. I used some earl's hose assembly lube to get the hose to slide on. It's VERY tight, but it will slide all the way down the inside of the fitting.. Make sure to NOT overtighten the fitting when you are assembling it.. It will leak if you overtighten.. Also, the SS hose will not "twist" for you to align the fittings when your installing the hose, you need to make sure you clock the fittings properly during assembly,

2) Any bolt on holding the CHRA to the turbine or compressor should be strong enough for you to use for a support bracket..

3) I don't know off had, but I called ATP several times when I was ordering parts and their tech line was always helpful--even when I was just after info and not buying anything..

[Fobio]

any suggestions on the bracing? location?

I was thinking to avoid the hassle, to just get the steedspeed log style as leen can basically accomodate any flange/WG combo.

[06Speed6]

To add to what ssinstaller said, you can also wrap some masking tape around the hose to hold the wires and use a fine tooth saw to cut through the masking tape and make a clean cut through the hose.

If the SS wrap gets frayed you will never get it to fit.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 To add to what ssinstaller said, you can also wrap some masking tape around the hose to hold the wires and use a fine tooth saw to cut through the masking tape and make a clean cut through the hose. If the SS wrap gets frayed you will never get it to fit.

I tried that and gave up..

I ended up using an cutoff wheel on my air grinder, I could not get a saw to cut without fraying the hell out of the braid...

[06Speed6]

It works with Brown & Miller racing hose, I havent used Earl's.

[Doc]

awsome post guys..

will the ATP sump side fitting for the oil drain line work on the turbo itself? or is the only way around this, hacking up the stock oil drain line and having a -10AN fitting welded onto it just after the turbo connection?

is there a fitting that simply bolts onto the turbo itself that will accomodate a -10AN fitting?