Should i do a "how to" build a motor

[djuosnteisn]

*** Costs ***
Spare block ~ $1,000 (note: this is optional, and you can get the $$ back when you sell your stocker)
Pistons, Rods, Bearings, gaskets, studs ~ ???
Machine Costs:
Machine Shop #1
- $35 to clean the block
- $60 to hone the cylinders
- $120 to bore & hone the cylinders
- $225 for basic 3 angle valve job
- $35 for micro-polish on the crank bearings
- $85 for grind + micro-polish on crank (if a grind is needed)

Machine Shop #2
- $50 to clean the block
- $20 / cyl to just hone cylinders
- $25 / cyl to bore & hone cylinders
- $250 for basic 3 angle valve job
- $25 for micro-polish on the crank bearings
- $90 for grind + micro-polish on crank (if a grind is needed)

So looks like mine will be around $355 - $465 (best case - worst case)


*** Hardware Choices ***
Pistons:
CP, $525
Wiseco, $499

Rods:
Pauter, $799
Carillo, $???

Carillo only come with 20mm wrist pin size, and have may have to be honed out to 20.5mm to mate with some pistons (like the wiseco). I believe CP makes a piston that fits them without any modifications.

I'm going with Wiseco pistons & Pauter rods. I'd prefer to go with the Carillo's but don't want to bother with the pin mis match, and to be quite honest, the Pauter's are going to be more than i'll ever need.



*** Preparing the block for Machine work ***
SU Mark did a great job chronicling the break down of the MZR:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-no-56k-19727/

I pretty much just followed what he did exactly, and though some of his instructions are "brief", it's only cause there is no real difficulty in removing the parts. It's actually very relaxing and fun!

Some additional tips:
- Use 3 hardend M10 - 1.5 x 75mm bolts to attach the motor to the engine stand. There are other non-threaded holes you can use for bolts with a nut if you want to use the 4th arm, but be sure not use the holes that are part of the oil pan cause that has to come off anyway.

- Take this plate off before you mount the motor to the engine stand, cause you have to remove it when you take the crank off last, and it's a pain to take off after the fact:


- Take lots of pictures of assemblies before you remove parts, so you know how to put them back on lol. If anybody needs any pics or wants me to take some of a certain part just pm me. I literally have everything in my garage.

- Some odd tools you'll need:
* You need a Torx for fuel injector holders (i'm not exact size, was just in a kit i had)


* A breaker bar will be your best friend for several things. I used it while taking off the clutch and pressure plate (put 2 bolts back in make sure breaker bar is only against the bolt head, not the threads):



Also used the breaker for the head & main studs. Seriously those things were torqued to like 300 ftlbs lol. Mark mentioned how tough they were, so i went ahead and just brought out the big guns:


* The head studs use a 12mm 12 point socket. Don't try to use a 6 point you'll round the head.

- When you turn the motor over to work on the oil pan and crank etc, watch out for left over coolant and oil that will spill out of the block. I had my gf put a trash bag under the top of the block as i turned it over to catch all the left over stuff. Worked great.

- Pressing out the pistons took a lot more force that i was expecting. On the last one i had my gf catch the piston as i tapped the rod end with a plastic screw driver handle & a hammer. Didn't have to tap hard at all.

- Lastly, don't lay the crank down on it's side. Either stand it up on end, somewhere where you won't trip over it, or lay it back in the main bearings, so that it's supported on each bearing. Otherwise it could warp.

That's pretty much it for tearing down the long block. It's alot of fun really, and a breeze to do on motor stand. I highly suggest anyone who's "into the motor" should do this. You learn how everything works and get to see things first hand like the PCV baffling, coolant fan, oil pump, chain tensioners etc etc etc. It was awesome!


*** Sending the block off for Machine work ***
Specs:


*** Other things to consider doing while block is out of car ***
Clutch:

Port work (head, int mani, etc):

3 or 5 angle valve job:

Cams:

BSD:


*** Reassembly of the long block ***
Timing:
- Do not leave the cam-alignment tool on while loosening the crank pulley bolt. It can fall off and damage the exhaust cam.

- Mark's thread will come in handy for sure

- Torquing the hardware is VERY VERY IMPORTANT. Here is a quote from our own brain child Lex that explains the proper method:

Originally Posted by Lex ARP2000 is their entry line head stud. In order to torque them properly you have to follow their instructions. Use the OEM torquing pattern and follow their instructions for torque - reaching the maximum torque in at least 5 increments. Also use their moly lubricant only. Get the thread of the studs very well lubed as well as the washers. To lube the threads you have to use two studs with the lube on them and run the threads against each other. Remember that torque changes significantly with material friction so this is why lubricating them with the provided lube is very very important. It is also recommended that after engine break in the head bolts are retorqued to spec.

*** Installing the new motor ***
Through the front, top or bottom?



I have never done this before, so any tips and tricks anyone has would be MUCH much appreciated, not just for me, but for everyone else down the road who builds. So if you guys want, just start posting up tips & opinions on hardware.

Right now i'm leaning towards Wiseco pistons and Pauter rods. I've heard that the Wiseco pistons handle higher temps much better than the competition, and the Pauters are the only rod that accommodates the larger wrist pin size.




*** up next, hardware selection and machining specs ***

[fjames]

Sounds like fun. I enjoy keeping up with your adventures

[superskaterxes]

i would do the carillo rods like yochi. you can have the pistons and or rods machined for any wrist pin size.

but +1 for the wiseco pistons

[aaronc7]

do it, would be epic

[NRSpeed]

If you plan on doing a complete how to on a full engine rebuild I would start a thread and reserve.... oh like the first 5 posts to your own thread. That way once you hit the message limit on the first post you can continue it in the next until you are complete. Then use your last post as a QA for all the good questions that come up and get answered. That way all the good info is all up in the first 5 (or so) posts.

[danesti]

ya buddy... do it.
that would be great.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by NRSpeed If you plan on doing a complete how to on a full engine rebuild I would start a thread and reserve.... oh like the first 5 posts to your own thread. That way once you hit the message limit on the first post you can continue it in the next until you are complete. Then use your last post as a QA for all the good questions that come up and get answered. That way all the good info is all up in the first 5 (or so) posts.

I guess i can just force the suckers who posted after me to make the edits, lol. Otherwise, if i run out of room i can def start another thread.


QA is a great idea. Right now i have alot more Q's than A's though.

[jus10]

Woohoo!!! Can't wait to see it!

[AmillieMS6]

do it

[FearUndersteer]

This is a great idea. Could you also keep track of all your costs so we can get an idea of what budget is needed to tackle this project.

[MarkyMark]

Do it Dustin You can never have enough of something like that. Even, with mine there already.

[cpolly69]

Don't forget what J Jackson just taught us on the cdfp

[yoichi]

Great Idea

[aviator79]

doit

[ATAZ]

I would love to have a spare to build! No limitations on time or sacrificing my DD I would be in for this as well.

+1 on the build write-up!

[djuosnteisn]

I guess for starters, it's time to strip down the long block. I've got two 3-day weekends coming up, so i'll prob start in a couple days. Lot's of pictures will be taken, and i already have a few questions, but i'll wait till i get there.

[11cruzito11]

do it man.

[Doc-1]

Yes

[serium]

ive been waiting for this becuase i really want to do this and i need a true idea of what it all costs and what exactly needs to be done to make a successful build. Great idea!

[Smoker6]

Yes please. Make sure to keep an exact tally of all the costs so that no one gets caught surprised mid build.

[nighthawk358]

why wiseco over cp pistons? just curious

[FreeFlyFreak]

If you want to be a sticky in the "how to section" then DO IT.

Otherwise fade into obscurity, like all the others that think about doing something but decide not to act on it.

[madvillain]

this is more than awesome, great idea and can't wait to see it finished!

[MS6_Auburn_Fan]

Just a thought would be to put the how to focus on the items that are unique to the MZR DISI engine. Such as the DI injectors. The special service tools needed for doing the timing. Uninstall/install into the engine bay. Installing the piston rings, rods, bearings, etc are standard for any engine build and there are probably 100s of how to books on this. This would definitely be very interesting how to no matter what direction you take it.

[8.5MS3]

awesome idea! cant wait for pix

[darth vader]

That'd be cool, these cars are rarer than M3 BMWs up north here so, There ain't alot of JY examples sitting around for me to pluck bits from and try stuff. Can anybody answer this for me: Is the regular 3GT 2.3 using the same block and crank as our car?

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by nighthawk358 why wiseco over cp pistons? just curious

I remember reading somewhere that they handle heat expansion better than other upgraded pistons. I'll confirm this though to be sure. I still believe somewhat that heat on the face of the piston can be an issue, especially with stratified fueling, where the injection occurs in a smaller area than the whole combustion chamber. It seems like it would let the outer portion of the piston heat up more than the inside, and possibly create some issues. Definitely not a fact, just a gut feeling.

[aviator79]

Well I never got a hold of a spare engine so im thinking of pulling it and doing this myself as well. Thou this would only be possible with help on here, but Ive got to get it built, but I only want to do it once so I want to do it right. Ive been keeping my eye on this thread as well:
GI: CNC mains/girdle
but I have to do this on a budget. However I already have a bad ass upgraded head ready to on so I wont have to budget anything else for that.
Main issue is I still dont even know how to pull the engine out the top and thats how its got to come out...I plan to do this in jan/feb after I get it back from the insurance company...

[djuosnteisn]

I think with a few friends and a hoist, it won't be too terrible going in & out the top. Motor is actually really light IMO. Getting it out of my jeep was a breeze.


I'm definitely going to be porting the head, but i kinda want some input from the brains on here. I'm not sure how ridiculous this is, but i think it would be cool to port both runners for each cylinder into one big runner. And then compliment this with a knife edge on the intake mani & of course vcts delete. Then just port the IM gasket same as the head.

I have no clue where coolant lines run in the head, and i'm not sure i have the $$ to drop 1k on DCR's head porting, though it looks soooo damn beautiful.

Also, does the exh ports have to be enlarged to compliment the int ports? 06speed6 i know you have these flow rate tatood on the back of your hands, care to share?

[aviator79]

Im going to get a hoist and figure out how to do it.

I dont think it will flow well if you do that. At the most V the head and have the only 1 runner in the IM(/cyl obv). I bet if you had DCR do you head it would cost more than $1000 as you would at least need to have the DCR valve adjustment added per their requirements. They certainly ported their intake runners more than the mine were done, but I dont think i will have an issue with my goals, thou I still wish mine were gasket matched. I know I may have to do some work to get them to match the IM that is being made, but im hopping that is a small issue that possibly could even be dealt with thru trimming the phenolic or whatever they used gasket to make it a smooth transition. But other things were done to the head to help flow as well.
I certainly think the exh ports need to be enlarged also, but I have nothing to base that on other than the fact that mine were done just as DCR is doing. I figured I could have done some of the PnP myself but I just took the easy route.
This is what was done to the head:
Justice racing in Winchester VA built the head and the PnP work was done by Headgames.
-Ferrea Custom Valve train
-CompPlus intake and exhaust valves
-Turbo spring valve
-Titanium retainers
-Spring seat locator
-Billet Valve locks
-Custom Manganese/Bronze valve guides
-Intake and exhaust valve stem seals for custom guides
-CnC porting done to the intake and exhaust side, as well as a fair about of bowl blending and a performance valve job.

Now another person that had his head, IM and TB flow tested is CorpusSpeed on Mazda6club.
For reference here are the flow test stuff.
I already posted pics of the head here:
Kriebs SPD Intake Manifold Project!

EDIT:
I suggest COMBINIG the MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline w./ the MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline and if needed make 2 subforums for transmission and driveline, but the engines are the SAME. So now we have some good threads here and some lost over there...needs to be addressed and fixed.

[toprock]

I have been curious about this.

How much?
What parts are available?
What is involved?

Looks like this thread will be a catch-all. Thank you bro!

[Lex]

Do it with lots of pics DJ. The recipe is similar for most engines with the little tricks that make the difference.

You also have to remember that the level of the build depends on your requirements. An all out race motor is different from a street motor. Here's where the choices come from. Clearances, component choices, etc etc etc.

Are you set on the VTCS delete?

[djuosnteisn]

I have two manis so it would be easy to swap back and forth. Only cons against the vtcs delete that i know of right now are:
- decreased idle air velocity, and potential rough idle, but noone has confirmed this yet.
- decreased swirl. I don't fully understand the role that the flappers play with vertical swirl, and i'm not 100% how necessary it is at higher air flow (wot) situations.

pro's are:
- obvious room for gasket matching and porting.
- removal of the lump that holds the vtcs rod on cylinder 1.
- a better match to a ported head, which i do definitely want to do.


As far as hardware, i've got a few emails out right now to several companies, just asking general questions. Kinda like the dating game, where i ask all of them why i should choose them lol.

I think the carillo rods are available with the stock wrist pin size now (or can be honed to it), and i'm interested in the Pro-H series:
4 PRO-H MA-23DISI>-65927S 3/8 CARR 5.927 150.55 0.858 21.79 0.859 21.82 2.1667 55.034 22mm
4 PRO-H MA-23DISI>-65927H 3/8 WMC 5.927 150.55 0.858 21.79 0.859 21.82 2.1667 55.034 22mm
4 PRO-SA MA-23DISI<SA-65927H 3/8 WMC 5.927 150.55 0.858 21.79 0.859 21.82 2.1667 55.034 22mm

Their catalog claims stock pin size is 22.5mm, is this right? So carillo's come with smaller pin size?

I'm confused on the bolts though, mainly the difference between H-11 steel (WMC) and multiphase (CARR). I'll research more tomorrow.

[madvillain]

[JumpingJackson]

Also you can have your bearings coated with dry film lubricant

[06Speed6]

Yes the exhaust ports need to be matched to the intake ports, from the factory the intake flow to exhaust flow ratio is near ideal and it is good to try to maintain that same ratio.

BTW, I am CorpusSpeed6 on 6club.

[KoukiS14]

I like the WPC treatment better than films for lubricity and oil retention.

I do like the idea of removing the divider on the manifold and head ports to make one big port, with the divide pushed further down into the head port. That's how most modern heads are. I think our head port design sucks in comparison to lots of other designs out there.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 BTW, I am CorpusSpeed6 on 6club.

lol WHAT!!!

holy fuck this all makes sense now!!! haha

Originally Posted by KoukiS14 I like the WPC treatment better than films for lubricity and oil retention. I do like the idea of removing the divider on the manifold and head ports to make one big port, with the divide pushed further down into the head port. That's how most modern heads are. I think our head port design sucks in comparison to lots of other designs out there.

dont forget this is DI not PI and air with fuel moves much differently then air with no fuel in it

[aviator79]

Im feeling that I would prefer to find a cheep engine as you did Dj. How much did you pay? PM me if you want. I think it would be silly to do this to my perfectly working engine so if I can find one for cheap enough I would prefer going that route as Im finally getting my car back on the road and would like to keep it that way while I build the block.
06Speed6, I guess previously I knew that you were CorpusSpeed from your location, but from being off this forum and on 6club only for so long I forgot. Wow, you certainly are more active over here. Great info over when you know who’s posts to read.
So you got that head installed? Any comments on the work that was done to mine (above)? This is the first car I have modded so...

[djuosnteisn]

I paid under 1k for the complete long block, with a gob of extras. Seriously the deal of the century.