Mazdaspeed 3/6 UOA Results

[Elvinf25]

Has anyone tried using Kendall 5w-30? Results???

[Elvinf25]

Love the thread and all the work you guys out into sharing this information. I want to try rotella T6 5w-40 next. I only find a Diesel engine t6 online. Is this the right one or am I suppose to find a gasoline engine version? I just don't want an expensive headache down the road. Thanks!

[div2]

Originally Posted by Elvinf25 Love the thread and all the work you guys out into sharing this information. I want to try rotella T6 5w-40 next. I only find a Diesel engine t6 online. Is this the right one or am I suppose to find a gasoline engine version? I just don't want an expensive headache down the road. Thanks!

Rotella T6 works in both diesel and gas engines and is one of several good oil choices for the MS3/MS6.

[Enki]

Fucking comedy. Almost 9 months on this OCI. It won't be until next year that I change oil again.

[MD1032]

After about 3 months running on unknown Mazda dealership 5W-30 (I requested synthetic but don't know if they used it). Usage was harsh. Short trips of 1.5 miles each day where the car would only get up to 120-140°F most days before I shut it down. Worried about fuel and water content, I pulled it at 3500 miles and had it analyzed.



Much better than expected. Replaced with T6 5W-40 and an FL-400S. Recently I found out that T6 is now available in 0W-40. Will try to get my hands on some of that next time. I started getting into the habit lately of warming up my car so it gets to operating temp by the time I shut it down, alternatively driving around until it's hot. I will do 6k this time and see how it comes out.

The car sounds a lot quieter on cold startups now with the Rotella.

[stoickiwi]

My first UOA for my MS3 ran with Amsoil OE XL 5w-30.
I'll be comparing several different oils and doing UOAs on each to determine which is the best for my specific MS3.

For those of you who are warranty conscious, I believe I got some nice results from this Amsoil OE XL which meets all of the specs set forth by Mazda in the manual. I know the OE version has less TBNs than the signature series, but it has 0.1 less than PP and still had great NOACK volatility of 10.5 and HTHS of 3.3.


Plus, it wasn't terribly expensive at $8.60/qt.


Data sheet for those interested:
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1404.pdf

[Chef_boi_r_u_dum]

Another Rotella UOA.

Also decided to do the Unicorn Piss to see how it was holding up. Purdy Gooooood.

[MD1032]

Changed to Autotechs and ran the dragon during this OCI. Fair amount of highway. Took oil sample from filter because I spilled my first sample.

[Enki]

What oil is this? If T6, the fuel *won't* "clean up."

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Enki What oil is this? If T6, the fuel *won't* "clean up."

It's T6. I'm not expecting it to clean up, either, because I'm pretty sure the Autotechs are to blame for the extra fuel (my first OCI, I had stock internals). A local has the exact same thing, he's had reports come back with 2.5% fuel and he has Autotechs as well. Glad I have the T6 now because that extra fuel kills the viscosity big time.

[Enki]

I don't think Autotechs would be dumping that much fuel into the oil without some kind of catastrophic failure/wearing at the hpfp lobes. We *do* have bad cylinder washdown as it is, and I don't think a specific kind of internals are really to blame.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Enki I don't think Autotechs would be dumping that much fuel into the oil without some kind of catastrophic failure/wearing at the hpfp lobes. We *do* have bad cylinder washdown as it is, and I don't think a specific kind of internals are really to blame.

I don't know, man. Me and the local dude (jamesr242) I referenced above have the Gen2's with the fancy shell pistons which should help with that. You think it's the T6? James is running Pennzoil 5W-30. He also has more city driving than me.

[Enki]

Honestly I think it's the oil. My RP UOAs come back nearly spotless and the dipstick only ever has the faintest smell of fuel compared to when it was on T6.

I've emailed Blackstone for a generalized comparison between the two oils on the fuel dilution front...let's see what they say (if even permitted to).

[Enki]

Update:

I have several samples, all sent by the same guy, from back in 2010. He is the only one I see running Rotella 5W/40 in that engine, and that's all he used - he did not switch to Royal Purple. But he did have fuel present in every sample, anywhere from a trace to 2.0% and averaging about 1.3%. Kristin

So far my average on RP is trace/ < .5%

[MD1032]

Interesting man. I appreciate the information. Must be something about the formulation where it doesn't like to give up the gas when heated.

[Enki]

More info:

Thanks Kristin, I really appreciate the info. As a side question, the mileage on the changes was about the same for each right? Or did the higher mileage samples contain more fuel? Thanks again!

All his oil changes were around 5000 miles, except the first which was 3600 miles. And that first sample did not correlate with a change in fuel based on miles.

[stoickiwi]

Just got the results back from Blackstone for Advanced Auto Fully Synthetic and had some outstanding results!

It is really made by CarQuest (Part CQ930) and only costs $4.99/quart at Advance Auto. The testing showed it actually holds up to sheer, fuel dilution, and retains TBNs better than the Amsoil OE XL that I tested last and all at about 50% of the cost.
I'm running Mobil Super this time and then I'll do a Penz Plat and see which is the top contender for my car.

[div2]

My latest UOA:

[MD1032]

@Enki; Rotella T6 5W-40

[Enki]

What oil? I had less than half a percent of dilution with similar mileage last go on RP Dexos.

Edit:
Figured as much. IIRC my UOA on T6 had about 2% fuel in it after only 3 months usage.

[Enki]

My incoming engine shitstorm aside, RP Dexos is the fucking bomb as far as oil goes.

[Enki]

From Blackstone:

It looks like the oil itself held up well while it was in service. The viscosity stayed within spec and it wasn't overly oxidized or contaminated. Yes, we would have recommended a longer oil run if it weren't for the increases in wear. We suggested the shorter run to keep a closer eye on wear levels. Everything else was fine. I'm not sure if the Redline injector cleaner would have an impact on wear levels. If you've been running it in the past, you'd expect metals to have been higher then too if it were to blame. Cleaners normally won't put lead into the oil. That's typically associated with octane booster or race gas. The higher redline could be a factor if that if you upped the limit during this oil change interval. It might be putting more stress in internal parts, and causing the engine to wear more than usual. If you cut back to the factory limit during the next run it would rule it out as a contributing factor.

ITT: Blackstone recommends 8-10k OCI on RP 5-30 Dexos.

[MS3Shadow]

My UOA
Said it was almost a perfect report. i'm running Rotella T6.
Had to get amended since they put down 1.8L for the car.

[MD1032]

Rotella T6, Motorcraft FL-400S.

Not liking the lead but otherwise looks good.

[Enki]

That fuel dilution is why I won't run T6 anymore...Besides corn I mean.

[MD1032]

Note: The "O2" sensor issue they mentioned did not exist...for a little while I was running super rich because of a crack in my downpipe causing erroneous readings in the primary O2. I tried to convey this in like one sentence in my last sample and it didn't work.

I was glad to see lead went back down. Looks like it was just a particle streak in the last sample.

edit: BTW fuel dilution is most likely down because I'm commuting longer distances now.

[MD1032]

I'm starting to get very annoyed with how T6 is performing in my engine. I did change the turbo, however, I changed it out for a used unit with 4000 miles on it, not a new one. There is still bearing wear showing up (albeit small) in the form of lead. It definitely seems usage related to me. Lead has been high ever since I started tuning the car for methanol. The 15 ppm sample was taken after a track event where the car was driven very hard.

At my next oil change, I will be switching to a full synthetic 5W-30 gasoline engine oil of some variety.

In case anyone (like Enki) is wondering why my fuel dilution has all of a sudden plummeted, please be aware that my usage has changed: I am now commuting ~55 miles one direction to work instead of 1.5 and this is the reason it is no longer an issue.

[MD1032]

The Redline MTL performed admirably in this run. I decided to add an ounce of XL-3 friction modifier when I changed it. This removed the annoying LSD noise, but made the shift feel in the cold really terrible, so I ended up swapping it back out with more straight MTL. And expensive lesson. Never again.

[MD1032]

Here it is, my last oil report using Rotella T6. Goodbye, and good riddance. On this particular report, I ran my methanol tune very little if any, it was mostly just plain non-performance gas tunes (nothing over 320 wtq at any rate), so that partially eliminates contribution from running meth.

Currently my car is running Kendall 5W-30 full synthetic titanium. I had to order a case off the internet to get a hold of this stuff. It's relatively inexpensive, but someone on BITOG suggested that it has a better anti-wear additive pack than T6. Not hard to imagine when I've been getting such shit results from T6.

After making this switch I also found myself finally having access to some E85, so it's just as well that I got rid of the T6 since that's known to be especially incompatible with E85.

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Currently my car is running Kendall 5W-30 full synthetic titanium. I had to order a case off the internet to get a hold of this stuff. It's relatively inexpensive, but someone on BITOG suggested that it has a better anti-wear additive pack than T6. Not hard to imagine when I've been getting such shit results from T6. After making this switch I also found myself finally having access to some E85, so it's just as well that I got rid of the T6 since that's known to be especially incompatible with E85.

How much is that oil by case?

sent from my Nexus 6P

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow How much is that oil by case? sent from my Nexus 6P

I bought mine for $53.45 shipped from "Petroleum Service Company". The shipping was quite fast actually. Technically that means it's cheaper than T6 (T6 usually goes for about $20 for 4 qts).

[MD1032]

Well well well, what do you know? Switch to a 5W-30 synthetic gas oil and boom, noticeable drop in lead right off the bat. Clearly my main bearings are happier with the Kendall 5W-30 full synthetic than all of my previous runs with T6. Notice that copper hit zero for the first time ever.



@JgamB;

[MSMS3]

So you are willing to give up the added wear protection benefits of the high zinc (ZDDP) in the T6? What you are not seeing (at least not yet) is the increased wear on the cylinder walls, piston skirts, cam lobes and crank journals (not the bearing) with the switch to lower zinc content.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 So you are willing to give up the added wear protection benefits of the high zinc in the T6? What you are not seeing (at least not yet) is the increased wear on the cylinder walls, piston skirts, cam lobes and crank journals (not the bearing) with the switch to lower zinc content.

Dude, think about what you just said..."added wear protection"? I was getting wear, now I'm not. Therefore, the new oil is giving me more wear protection...by definition. Zinc is not the only anti-wear additive out there, or in these oils.

[MSMS3]

I'm suggesting that you may not have been using the Kendall long enough to make that statement. There is not a lot of data on it, and there is a huge amount of accumulated data on the role of ZDDP in reducing metal-on-metal wear on cam lobes, cylinder walls, crank journals and other moving/reciprocating parts.

I'm not saying your oil or your results are not impressive. I'm saying I'm not convinced at all that the move by the feds to reduce ZDDP concentration below its former levels is a good thing for high performance engines. T6 gets around this as a "diesel" oil.

I'm not concerned about catalytic converters as I have none. I do worry a little about my primary 02 sensor, but not enough to give up the zinc. I do not run methanol mixtures and concerned about "black death" hpfp issues. I'm at 126,000 miles and have been happy with the T6 for many years now. I realize I'm just a sample of one.

I also know that excessive levels of ZDDP (well above what T6 provides) can actually be harmful.

I'd like to see more data over a longer period of time before reducing ZDDP for my particular mod level.

[PurplFox]

After the first of the year Ill be doing in house sample here at work. I notice that yall only look at spectrometry, viscosity and Missing most from the ftir. TBN should be a major part of a motor oil testing. Are yall just going by what they provide or do any of yall ask for extras

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by PurplFox After the first of the year Ill be doing in house sample here at work. I notice that yall only look at spectrometry, viscosity and Missing most from the ftir. TBN should be a major part of a motor oil testing. Are yall just going by what they provide or do any of yall ask for extras

I don't think it's necessary to check the TBN for the short OCI's we run around here. I think I did mine on one of the longer runs I did (9k miles or so?) and there was tons of neutralizing additive left. Most everyone on here is using fancy oil with lots of additive in it to begin with and running it for short intervals...zero chance of it depleting. You understand what the purpose of the TBN test is, right? And how it relates to the oil's condition? (no offense)

[PurplFox]

yes, i understand, I usually am dealing with industrial oils. TBN we watch on 6 month life oil changes for diesels, you'd be surprised how quickly it can shift. But with the industrial oils i have a couple of gearboxes that have gone as long as 10 years without the need in an oil change. Ill probably watch it since its no extra cost. ill be using the FTIR method, which is none not to be supper accurate for tbn or tan, but is trendable. if the oil is clear enough, i may attempt Partical count with my up coming filter analyses.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by PurplFox ill be using the FTIR method, which is none not to be supper accurate for tbn or tan

Yuck. Quantitative FTIR sucks, and you're going to have soot and other variable impurities in there which will totally skew the results. Why not just do it by titration?

I have a hard time believing the value would shift suddenly over time with a healthy engine, unless the engine was used under very extreme conditions (constant short trips).

[PurplFox]

The engines are fire water back ups. Cold start to full power in 30 sec or less. Its definitely brutal on the oil and motor.
For the last year I've been doing them in-house and at the outside lab. so far the results are really comparable. since they are safety critical we chose to send them out so the liability isn't on me personally. so far I've caught two in early stages of bearing failure.

Convince my company to get me more goodies lol. Im happy to have my spectrometer.

http://www.spectrosci.com/product/minilab-153/

after the first of the year this will be what I'm using. the spectrometer extremely accurate(verified over the course of a year by compairing professional lab to our results)